Comments on: Morality and Ethics, Valuing the People https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 17 May 2011 17:49:11 +0000 hourly 1 By: zrbrt https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9586 Fri, 28 Jan 2011 05:58:12 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9586 Positive: The article discussed a topic I agree with. At most shops where I go, people know that I am there to have fun playing AND trade in an open, responsible manner. Because of my honesty with other players, I don't have to pull out my binder and roam the room anymore pestering others for trades. Instead, people want to show me their binder before I even get a chance to sit down.

I like the idea of trading away packs, however at my local game store nobody will trade for them at $3 a pop. I have been trading them at $2-$2.50 and still have been enjoying the rewards. I like it when somebody rips open a mythic in front of me, they get what they want (excitement) and I get what I want (certainty).

Cons: I would like a solid piece of information that I can take away from each article. Here, I was already in the know. I understand that there is no way you can predict what your readers do/do not have a grasp on, but I believe that this topic has been approached by many financial writers around the web.

Future Article Idea: Transitioning from sitting at the PTQ by yourself to getting your friends to come along, or, how to prepare your trade binder/card stock for the next upcoming PTQ. Ending articles with a quick, solid idea about a card that is about to heat up and why / what actions to take would also be a boon to any article you write.

Example: Abyssal Persecutor is going to heat up. Why? MBS spoiler card "Go For The Throat" has caused a lot of hype. The first time you see this card in a top 8 at a major event you should dump your copies and reap the rewards of this questionable card.

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By: Noah Whinston https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9581 Fri, 28 Jan 2011 04:03:27 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9581 In reply to Brandon Cooper.

This is perfect. Comments like this make me wish I could pick a repeat winner 2 weeks in a row haha

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By: @am71722 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9575 Fri, 28 Jan 2011 02:44:09 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9575 Pros: Liked the length of the article and general layout, not to mention the valuable content.
Slops: Add a pick of the week or something… even if it is something everyone else on the site has talked about already. The more people that agree on something the more confidence buyers have.
Topics: How to find your markets & What to trade with someone looking for the same thing you are.

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By: q1006662 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9549 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:12:26 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9549 In reply to Gus.

After reading some articles on this topic, I've settled into breaking up my binder into categories, organized by color. They are, in order: Standard, Extended, Commander, Fancy (Foils, Foreign, Promos, Signed, etc…), and the <$1 section. I like having the junk in the binder because sometimes you are able to trade away that Seer's Sundial. The bulk also helps to even out trades or offer throw-ins from that section. Keeping them segregated at the back doesn't force anyone to look at them if they don't want to. I also keep a small binder stocked with things I am less inclined to trade away (Fetches, Jaces, Baneslayers, etc…).

Something that Medina (I think) proposed a while back that is AMAZING: Keep a one of each card in your binder. Keep any extras in penny sleeves in a box that you bring with you when trading. You'll have to sort them so you can find the extras quickly when need be but that isn't hard. You have to let people know that you have more than one copy of most things in your binder, but it's great because:
-It maximizes your binder space and keeps your binder from getting bulgy
-It doesn't stretch your pages
-People don't know how many valuable cards you have (makes you less of a target)
-Minimizes losses if your binder gets stolen
-Allows you to control how many of a card you want to trade to someone
-Some people get intimidated when they see you have multiple playsets of cards
This technique has worked very well for me and I would recommend it to anyone!

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By: josh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9546 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:35:16 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9546 You let the cat out of the bag regarding trading away packs. Glad to see packs acknowledged as inventory. Currently I have around 24 packs for trading away to other players. One thing I do is buy prize packs off of others at $2 a piece & then trade them for $3-4 depending on the quality of what I am trying to get. There are a few players around here that just love busting packs & they will gladly trade for them at $4 each.

This article is a bit better than your last one. However more examples are much appreciated. I don't always want to know every detail, but a few more details would be appreciated.

Two things I'd like to see in the future:
1) how to balance an awkward trade
2) exit strategies and when to use them.

(for the QS admins, why can i not login with my insider login? Twitter is blocked at my job & I don't have accounts with the others)

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By: mike https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9545 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:23:25 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9545 one positive comment: I am so glad when I see these articles. A few other financial writers have covered similar morals to trading but everyone is different. My hope is that if people keep writing these articles it will make the magic community a better place to hang out and be able to trade for the cards you need.

one constructive criticism: Other than hey, have some basic morals when trading, the article did not really have any specific advice. There were a few things not to do but not really a lot of content. I thought the article must be really short because there didn't seem to be much meat to it. Obviously looking back, it is decently long, but it didn't feel like there was much to it. That may not be as negative as I am making it seem because it was such an easy read that it just seemed short.

one future article topic: One thing that i have not seen anyone write on that would be interesting is the value and tradability of cards from other formats. I am not talking about even the recently popularized edh, I mean things like pauper, vintage (the nonlegacy cards), and things like that.

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By: Brandon Cooper https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9521 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:26:46 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9521 You touch on a pet-peeve of mine: the dreaded first page bling that isn't for trade. It's like dude, I don't care how big your cardboard penis is! After being told something on the front page isn’t for trade, it makes me want to hand the binder back and move on.

I like your point on “Treat others as you would want to be treated”. This needs to be the golden rule in trading. Do right by someone in a trade and they’ll be eager to crack their binder open when they see you again. Develop the relationships and the opportunity for cards will come! I wish more people understood this.

Somehow I never considered the value of trading packs to other players. I’ve always been a pack buster. If I win any packs they get opened as soon as I get home. Now maybe I’ll reconsider my stance thanks to your article! Do you think it could be worth it to buy a box simply to trade the packs? You would have to make sure you get no less than $3 value on each pack of course, but I wonder if it could be good leverage in trading to someone who doesn’t have the funds to buy new packs (especially when a new set is out and demand for that set is still high).

I agree with the first commenter. More anecdotes are something I would like to read about. Reading about personal experience sticks with me more. It would have been interesting to hear about some of your specific missteps in trading with friends. What was the trade? How much was the value skewed in your favor? Once you realized you were getting the better end of the deal, what did you do to even up with your friend? Did you go back to him afterwards and make it right?

Like last week’s comment, I still want to hear your methods of preparation for a larger event like a PTQ, or even a GP or SCG Open. In addition, I think it would be of value to read about how you prepare for a new set. Prereleases are a different beast altogether than any other event because of the hype and speculation on the new cards. Some tips on how to prepare and how to approach trading at a prerelease would be well received.

Keep up the good work!

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By: Noah Whinston https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9537 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:37:52 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9537 wow, this is a lot of comments already. appreciate all the feedback greatly. i'll have enough article ideas for at least a month. keep it up!

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By: FateCreatr https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9532 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:57:43 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9532 In reply to Gus.

I'm not a trading master these days, but there area few ways i'd suggest approaching those questions.

I tend to organize my binders by color for ease of use, but that can back fire. I think the best mix is to have a smaller binder with the cards people drool over which is very organized, shows you are a pro. And then a general binder which is somewhat in disarray. When trading smaller cards it's not always a good idea to appear to know what you're doing since there are lots of times that you are perfectly happy tossing away lots of small stuff for bigger stuff. in that scenario i would only bring out the binder of bigger cards if i saw things that i was willing to trade them away to receive.

I have found that the best way to work out value differences like that is to always ask the other guy what they value their, and my, cards at. that way I can either get things that i value higher for cheap, or it gives me the framework to "add my opinion" to what I think they are worth without calling them a liar.

if someone has cards that aren't for trade in their binder i usually just trade a bit harder. "well that's the only card i want." if they don't relent, move on.

cash deals are done on the side a lot, sometimes in the parking lot or sometimes just under the table. use your own moral judgement on these kins of things, or just play with them a bit. tell that you only accept double or triple value in cash because your home town is short on cards etc.

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By: Gus https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9515 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:38:19 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9515 Positive – Sealed trading! How the hell have I missed this concept?!? It never even occured to me to go to big events with a box of product to trade packs at $3 for cards. I'd do that all day long! Thank you for pointing this concept out!

Negative – I need more info on how I should organize my binder. Do I put dollar rares in there? Hot non-rares (mana leak, bolt, wall of omens, etc)?

Future Article – Specific advice on how to handle difficult situations, like when the person you're trading with insists that Tendrils of Agony is a $5 card. Or what you say to people with binders half-full of cards 'not for trade'. Or when the person wants to offer you cash somewhere you are not supposed to sell cards (local shops, dealer halls).

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By: Wade https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9494 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 06:39:23 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9494 I believe we have all been in a situation where someones cards in a "trade binder" were not for trade. It truly is an annoying situation. I agree completely everything is for trade for the right price. I am actually going to be working on my trade binder(s) tomorrow to get them ready for the prerelease and I will be adding some cards that have a high price but can be traded to catch attention. I would like more info regarding how you prefer to price ? Let the trading party choose? You pick a site you are comfortable with? How do you keep that consistent to keep up with it all in your head or just use the wonderful smart phone? I would be interested to read your opinion on stores who seem to be a bit shady and how that can be handled to protect yourself and your friends?

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By: q1006662 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/01/morality-and-ethics-valuing-the-people/#comment-9493 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 06:36:23 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=9165#comment-9493 I love that you call out the guy who stocks his binder with things that aren't for trade. There was one guy I tried to trade with a couple of weeks back whose binder was 60% angel cards, 4 Vensers, and a ton of dollar rares. I asked him to pull something out of my binder to trade for a Grand Architect. He pulled an Iona and Linvala. I asked about the Vensers in the hope of evening the trade. They weren't for trade. The angels weren't for trade either. I then asked him to pull something less valuable but there was nothing else he wanted. *sigh* I ended up buying a playset of Architects on eBay.

More specifics and less generalities. Talking about winning and selling packs is great, for example. It's a specific event, and you tell the story of when you overcharged your friends. The next paragraph talks in more general terms about the same idea (don't overcharge your friends) but it is less punchy because you have not tied that idea to one of your real world experiences.
I would like to see more stories and anecdotes about trading, whether it's good trades, bad trades, or even other people's reactions to trades (like somebody stepping in to disrupt a trade where someone was getting ripped off). I would also be interested in hearing about some MOTL stories if you have any good ones. Maybe people who haggle down to the cent, or other annoyances.

Thanks for the article!

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