Comments on: The Rules Around “Collusion” Disqualifications Need Revision https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:21:34 +0000 hourly 1 By: phyrexian trader https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-348720 Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:21:34 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-348720 In reply to Delarock.

No, I have the same feeling, and I’m not happy about that.

The rules are clear. And we don’t need a policy about how to break or bend the rules.

]]>
By: phyrexian trader https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-348699 Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:15:01 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-348699 In reply to Chris Manrique.

How is that going to help?
You want people to run away from judges?

]]>
By: phyrexian trader https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-348658 Mon, 12 Jan 2015 14:54:19 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-348658 In reply to MKG.

Hard to believe, a judge involved in the investigation will not leak information from that document. We don’t do that.

]]>
By: Jason Alt https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-343316 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 22:16:02 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-343316 In reply to bevedog.

The alternative is assuming I can’t tell when someone is joking and think he was cheating. I figured people would get it, but then I should have remembered people thought I was serious when I said Ari Lax knew how to insult people in fluent Japanese.

]]>
By: Jordan Miller https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-343129 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 19:40:26 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-343129 In reply to bevedog.

It was pretty clearly a joke even without the clarifying comment. Jason just doesn’t have a sense of humor.

]]>
By: MKG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-343061 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 18:33:33 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-343061 I totally agree with you. I used to help make policy for one of the largest universities in the US and while completely eliminating gray areas is impossible (there are always outliers), when a new policy was implemented, we created explicit guidelines which were clear to all users (students, parents, faculty, and staff). The result was that everyone who had an interest in that policy should be able to easily understand and implement it.

]]>
By: MKG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-343021 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 18:07:13 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-343021 In reply to jo alexander.

It’s interesting that people automatically assume that Durward is lying. He’d have to be pretty stupid to write about this topic if he had knowingly colluded, since it would make him look worse once the DCI punishes him. In the very recent past, we’ve seen at least one person doing “damage control” (i.e., “stop the witch hunts”) about an ongoing investigation and he looked much worse for simply not speaking on the subject until the investigation was complete. Maybe it’s the actions of Humphries/Bertoncini/Boettcher that have so jaded people.

]]>
By: MKG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-343004 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 17:51:58 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-343004 In reply to Mike.

Yesterday, I read a post by another judge, who had access to the original DQ report. He indicated that Durward’s description of events was more or less in line with that report, which he said was to be expected with a well-known player (as opposed to some random person spouting off about his/her DQ). He further indicated that there was, indeed, an ongoing investigation, but it would likely not be concluded for about a month.

I don’t know if the DCI investigates gray-area situations like this, particularly if they involve high-level players, as a kind of internal audit to ensure that judge staff are fairly implementing policy or if they are looking at Durward for an infraction.

]]>
By: Delarock https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342846 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 15:50:00 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342846 Am I the only one who feels that article burned a judge and/or the position of judge in general?

]]>
By: bevedog https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342841 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 15:47:03 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342841 In reply to Jason Alt.

Caleb clarified in the comments on his article that this was a joke and that he’d even run it past Perez before publishing. Perhaps you are making a similar joke?

]]>
By: Chris Manrique https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342832 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 15:38:44 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342832 What is needed is a bright line rule (a rule where it is obvious to everyone when it is crossed).

Suggestion:

“In swiss rounds, no discussion of prize splits may take place until match results have been reported.”

This would serve to clearly separate prize splits from concessions/draws.

]]>
By: Mike https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342794 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 15:13:17 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342794 In reply to phyrexian trader.

Nobody said anything about there being an investigation. As far as we’re aware, due to the reporting judge not recommending a suspension, there won’t be an actual investigation.

And while we don’t know for certain, there’s way more reason to assume that there isn’t an investigation than there is to assume that there is one.

]]>
By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342725 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 14:26:36 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342725 In reply to Jason Alt.

Emulating commenters on your posts, are we? :p

]]>
By: jo alexander https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342620 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 12:54:23 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342620 I love peoples outrage here. ” Nothing like being a shit on top of being a cheater.”
“expect to get caught, and don’t cry about it afterwards.
I’m somehow upset he is playing victim here, while he was trying to be smarter than the rules.”

Classic!

]]>
By: Jason Alt https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342461 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 10:32:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342461 I could have done without him acting like the biggest tragedy possible was his DQ leading to Ray Perez making Top 8 where he was “Dead money” and his opponent would “enjoy the bye”. Nothing like being a shit on top of being a cheater.

]]>
By: phyrexian trader https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342439 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 10:09:39 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342439 also, this is an ongoing investigation, so maybe I should just shut up and wait until that is finalized.

]]>
By: phyrexian trader https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-rules-around-collusion-disqualifications-need-revision/#comment-342435 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 10:05:43 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=55685#comment-342435 If you try to be shady, expect to get caught.
Rules are clear. It’s not allowed. But with words, you can try to bend around them.
But the real purpose can be very clear. The report is one side of the story. He may tells his side of the story to a L4. I’m pretty sure the L4 said: if that is exactly what happened, than I would do X, but I need to hear the other side of the story.
Question is: did that really happen? And did the L4 said he disagreed with the given ruling on that PTQ?

There are many things in the grey zone, and the head judge on the event is the one who decides, if he wants te be sure, ask the judge first. Not doing that is his own fault.
I agree that getting rid of the grey zone will benefit the competitive scene, but don’t blame the judges. If you know the grey zone exist, and you enter that grey zone, expect to get caught, and don’t cry about it afterwards.
I’m somehow upset he is playing victim here, while he was trying to be smarter than the rules.

]]>