Comments on: Modern Investment: Deck Win Rate to Cost Analysis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Thu, 07 Sep 2017 04:32:52 +0000 hourly 1 By: Alessandro Stamatto https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120860 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 04:32:52 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120860 Great analysis!

Is there a more… Modern one? (ha! Silly pun).

Did someone do an analysis of the 2017 meta?

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By: archmage_jason https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120859 Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:04:19 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120859 i am a new MtG player. i started with standard with Jeskai and Atarka Red Decks. a few weeks ago, i had an urge to try modern. since i already have Monastery Swiftspear, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Wooded Foothills and Atarka’s Command, i decided to make a modern burn deck. i was not sure if going burn was the right decision for me, but after reading your article, i feel satisfied of my choice. i just checked Legacy tournaments and to my surprise there’s also Burn there with pretty much the same cards. i made the right decision by going with Burn.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120858 Sat, 30 May 2015 22:03:53 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120858 In reply to Tony Edwards.

Tier 1 and 2 decks are defined on the Top Decks page (http://quietspeculation.com/topdecks/). In essence, decks are tier 1 if they comprise a significantly above-average segment of the metagame. Decks are tier 2 if their prevalence is above average, but not as high as those in tier 1. This accounts for MTGO dailies/MOCS/PPTQ events, all paper events, and also any major paper events (e.g. Grand Prix or Pro Tour) finishes in the date range. Because we are in an offseason, the most recent “major paper event” was in late February (SCG Baltimore), so we are using weighted numbers from that tournament. All the other finishes are from the hundreds of other events that happen in any given date range.

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By: Tony Edwards https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120857 Sat, 30 May 2015 20:10:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120857 What exactly differentiates tier 1 from tier 2? None of the finishes cited for tier 1 decks are 1st place finishes, yet for 4 of 6 tier 2 decks you are showing 1st place finishes.

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By: Edwin https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120856 Wed, 27 May 2015 01:01:42 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120856 In reply to George Kourou.

One thing to point out about Modern fish is that it transforms into Legacy fish pretty easily, and is as serious contender in Legacy as it is in Modern, which just drips value. Switch out 10-15 cards of the 75 and you can play multiple formats. This is also true of Burn.

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By: dylan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120855 Mon, 25 May 2015 07:06:20 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120855 I fell like starting at 0% for win percentage isn’t really the right way to go about finding the most cost effective deck. I bet you could build some mono red junk commons deck for like 8$ that could win 3% of its matches (for example I beat pod 1 game out of 3 with mono red heroic from when ktk came out), but that deck would be a terrible investment. Entering a tournement with a 20% win rate you might as well not enter at all. I think taking the win percentage above some base number would give more meaningful results, but I have no idea how to chose that base.

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By: Kevin Douglass https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120854 Thu, 21 May 2015 15:15:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120854 In reply to Dave Ellis.

I was watching shocktroopa’s (kharniverous) stream over the weekend and he said he cashed out in 5 of the last 6 dailies/8-mans he did. He also went to his game history page and showed that his constructed rating is something like 860. And he only plays mono-u tron. That’s bananas. Honestly, I think a deck like mono-u tron requires even more of an understanding of the format/opponent’s deck than usual, since it’s so reactive. That’s why the deck is only so good if the pilot is really, really good. IMO

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120853 Thu, 21 May 2015 15:13:42 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120853 In reply to Dave Ellis.

The MWP issue with Mono U Tron is that it’s artificially brought down by newer players. The players who go 4-0/3-1 with it are good pilots who know their stuff. Their win rates are quite strong. But the players who go 2-2 or worse are disproportionately bringing down the MWP because they are so new to the format. It’s actually an interesting effect because you don’t see it with a lot of other decks.

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By: Dave Ellis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120852 Thu, 21 May 2015 12:24:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120852 Another “budget” deck that has a reasonably high match win percentage (at least if I recall correctly) is Mono Blue Tron. However, the sample size for it is very low, and the only player I know of that is consistently cashing daily events with it is shoktroopa.

That said, shoktroopa has had that many results in daily events that I can’t help but think there must be something there.

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By: George Kourou https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120851 Thu, 21 May 2015 10:23:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120851 In reply to Galerion.

Of course dear Galerion I agree with you. But the thing is that with a Simian Spirit Guide ban IF they wanted to ban it, turn 1 kill becomes impossible and turn 2 kill becomes immensely hard to be dealt.

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By: Michael Schuuring https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120850 Thu, 21 May 2015 09:57:17 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120850 Really good article – thanks. Its articles like these that have made this relatively new website become worth a daily visit for me. I am a new but enthousiastic modern player, on a splurge I just finished building B/W tokens and Merfolk. But very fun and somewhat dissimilar dekcs, and I am now feel more than validated in my choice after reading this article when at least one of the two decks is such a top performer.

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By: Galerion https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120849 Thu, 21 May 2015 09:28:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120849 In reply to George Kourou.

I think it’s perfectly fine to warn people about Amulet Bloom. It does violate the Turn 4 rule. There is no discussion to be had there. The only thing that matters is if Wizards thinks that is happening too often or not.
You don’t want to get caught with your pants down when a banning does happen because you invested into a deck that has almost no staples in it that you could use in many other decks.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120848 Thu, 21 May 2015 04:44:29 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120848 In reply to Sheridan Lardner.

Awesome – looking forward to it!

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120847 Thu, 21 May 2015 00:38:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120847 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

That’s actually the plan. I’m adding more dailies to the dataset to see if we can increase any of those N’s, but once we do, expect to see some new articles on it.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120846 Wed, 20 May 2015 21:57:21 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120846 Nice analysis. I’m not surprised to see the top 3, though I am a bit surprised that my favorite deck (Merfolk) snagged the #1 spot. I know that less played decks (such as the ones that round out the rest of your Tier 2) have a less reliable MWP%, but maybe it would be worth taking a look at those as well? I think that if you take their win rates with a healthy grain of salt, you might come up with a deck that can hang with the MWP ROI of some (if not all) of the decks here.

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By: justaguy https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120845 Wed, 20 May 2015 20:23:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120845 On the plus side – Merfolk gets you close to a function Legacy deck.

Short of Force of Wills mind you.

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By: George Kourou https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120844 Wed, 20 May 2015 18:06:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120844 I am glad to hear that. And I can fully understand the latter statement of yours dear Sheridan. Well, the Summer Bloom is the engine that cracks up the engine for the Amulet Bloom combo so I can understand that.
The fact is though, that if Wizards decide to ban something they should not look beyond Simian Spirit Guide and that is because without it there are no more T-1 kills, although this was 0.05% likely to happen in each game. Anything beyond that is pure mistake and should lead to more players(like me of course) to look away from this format.
And right now, the meta is fantastic so it all can work out perfectly.
The BEST SOLUTION however would be to power up some decks that have been aside for some time now, and maybe one or two that can look Amulet Bloom deck in the eyes.
Thanks for your answer and your article.
George

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120843 Wed, 20 May 2015 17:08:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120843 In reply to George Kourou.

Sorry if this wasn’t clear. I definitely don’t think Bloom should be banned and I also don’t want ANYTHING banned. But I also want to give full information to my readers, and based on what Wizards has done in the past, the Bloom ban is the likeliest IF something from the deck does get banned. Do I want it to happen? No way. Do I think it will happen? Right now, no. But if something does get banned from that deck, I think it will be Bloom and I want readers to prepare themselves for that. Honestly, I would like Wizards to either ease up on the banning and to be more transparent about the whole process. Until that happens, however, I want players to be prepared for worst-case scenarios.

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By: George Kourou https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/05/modern-investment-deck-win-rate-to-cost-analysis/#comment-2120842 Wed, 20 May 2015 17:01:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=2017#comment-2120842 Well, gratz on the article.
But it is a certain thing I do not get.It feels almost like you think is fair for the ‘Summer Bloom’ cards to get banned. And moreover, you are stating ,dear Sheridan, that the archetype may function after the ban. And I dare saying that this is not the first time I read that.
Well, the truth from my perspective is that with Hive Mind or Simian getting banned, the deck can continue on.But with either Amulet or Bloom ban, I am certain that the deck will get completely shut down.
Anyways, I don’t think it ll get banned as it has no consistent turn 2 or 3 kills on it.
Great article except for this one I believe. Congratulations for one more time.
George.

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