Comments on: The Bolt Test: Modern’s High-Water Mark https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Thu, 21 Jul 2016 13:35:29 +0000 hourly 1 By: Davide Tormene https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122442 Thu, 21 Jul 2016 13:35:29 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122442 what about bringing in spell queller (http://quietspeculation.com/spirit-thing-spell-queller-modern/)???
bolt can’t hurt him while we get to do a good tempo and card advantage. Oh and shoal loves to play with more then just 4 cc3 blue spells.
I’d probably cut Timely Reinforcements as they have the same cc and I don’t really want to cut any other card.
I’ll test it out but the 4th snare will become a dispel (or maybe a pierce) as with company decks having a new friend (tool) I don’t really feel safe having no answer to big instant cards (chord for instance).
Let me know your thoughts about it.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122441 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 18:11:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122441 In reply to Ussf Rhni.

Looks fine. But don’t expect a reply from Jordan. The guy doesn’t reply to old articles.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122440 Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:21:15 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122440 In reply to Ussf Rhni.

Hey Jordan. Could you please take the time to reply to my comment please? Greatly appreciated : )

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By: Ussf Rhni https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122439 Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:49:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122439 Hi Jordan,

I’m looking to get started with Modern and your Favourable Mantis build looks very fun to play with.

My SB for a gpt would be:

1 Stubborn Denial
2 Wear // Tear
2 Pyroclasm
2 RIP
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
3 Timely Reinforcement
1 Elspeth, Sun’s Champion

Think this will give me a good chance in a broad field? What can I do about GR Tron btw?

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122438 Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:10:08 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122438 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

I helped design this deck with chris on the way to OKC. There were four of us in the car brewing it including his brother. We literally made it on the car ride just befote we got there. I designed the manabase sorcifically and we all put cards together to finish it. He went x 3 at the actual gp. People were getting tilted from losing to a “standard deck”. We made some minor tweaks after the trial, a big one being suns champion in the sb, because jund can’t handle it.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122437 Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:22:27 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122437 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Familiar does nothing for this deck. At best it’s attacking for 2 on the second turn and giving us a Cursecatcher effect that I don’t even think we want in this deck. It doesn’t synergize with Stubborn Denial, it gives opponents a decent target for Lighting Bolt effects once we get an Anthem online, and it doesn’t present a passable clock or stop an opponent’s. Serra Avenger does all of these things.

Moorland Haunt looks fine on paper, but I don’t like how it messes up on-curve Mantis Riders. We only run 20 lands. We’d have to cut something like Colonnade, which also messes up on-curve Riders, to play Haunt. And even there, Haunt does a lot more damage to the turn-three Rider plan than Colonnade does. Without Colonnades, we might also lack plays for the first couple turns of the game. I’m inclined to think Colonnade is better for all of these reasons.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122436 Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:07:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122436 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

A few more questions: what do you think of Judge’s Familiar as an early-game play? It’s built-in disruption, keeps with the “flying white creatures” theme, and though it does not pass the Bolt test, it’s at mana parity with Bolt, so it’s not nearly as bad to lose one this way. Maybe try it out in place of Serra Avenger?

Another pet card of mine is Moorland Haunt, which gets you value from dead creatures (relevant in this case since the creature count is low), and the Spirits meet the pre-requisites for both anthems. Something to consider, perhaps?

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122435 Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:55:14 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122435 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Good arguments for Helix. I’ve been favoring Timely because it does so much work against Grixis and aggro decks. The main draw to Helix seems like its relevance as an early-game play, which we don’t have many of outside of Anthem effects. But our fliers wall most of the creatures we want to hit with it from turn 3 on, and we don’t take much damage from lands, so I’m not sure we really need more remove-target-weakling effects. I like that Colonnade is so big, and with an Anthem out he does swing for 5 in the air, which is a whole lot. IMO if you’re activating manlands, you’ve reached a point where you can afford the 3WU activation cost.

For the Favorable Mantis build, I’m somewhere around here right now:

3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Pyroclasm
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Wear // Tear

I’m filling in the other slots with Stony Silence, Spellskite, and Rest in Peace. RIP is a tremendous card in Modern and this is one of the few decks that can play it without fearing any self-harm, but I cap at two copies because I don’t like drawing more than one. Still, it doesn’t address any “problem” matchups on its own, which is why it’s still flex.

Please let me know how your testing goes!

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122434 Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:47:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122434 I really like this deck. I’ve been looking for some way to make Mantis Rider (a pet card of mine for a long time) Modern-playable, and this is looking strong. I’m surprised that Vapor Snag isn’t in here, though – it’s a great early-game tempo tool in my opinion, and given that your deck as currently built isn’t presenting a threat until (at least) Turn 3, I think I’d try and sneak 1-2 in there. I’m also wondering whether Faerie Conclave is more up your alley than Celestial Colonnade – sure, Honor of the Pure doesn’t work with it, but that 3WU activation cost looks like a pipe dream from where I’m sitting.

What have been your preliminary thoughts in terms of building a sideboard for this deck? I’m feeling like I’d want some Snares, Pyroclasms, and Engineered Explosives for creature decks, Wear/Tear for artifacts and enchantments, but beyond that I’m grasping at straws. Lightning Helix is redundant with Timely Reinforcements, but in my opinion it outperforms it – it doesn’t overlap with threat deployment, it can be aimed at the face, and it comes out at instant speed.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122433 Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:37:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122433 In reply to Tyrannon.

I haven’t. I hear you on the Anthems not doing anything on their own, but I think there’s a really big difference between a 2-mana do-nothing card and a 3-mana do-nothing card in Modern. Since Modern’s a turn-four format, we want to have relevant disruption available early on, not to mention pressure to back it up with. Needing to cast a 3-mana enchantment to start actually having a gameplan seems shaky to me, and in an Ascendency deck you probably won’t have much disruption to begin with. Mind posting a list?

As for Gideon, I don’t like how expensive he is (don’t want too many four 4-drops, and he competes with Lightning Angel) or that he sits above Mantis Rider on the curve. That means opponents get a whole turn to Bolt/Helix/Anger the Rider before Gideon gets online, and that’s assuming we immediately dump Gideon into the grave when he hits play to get his ultimate off, making him a four-mana Anthem. That’s more expensive than Glorious Anthem and twice the price of Favorable Winds. Gideon doesn’t even pitch to Shoal.

It’s true that Gideon has “other applications,” but not ones that directly/obviously support our primary gameplan. I’ve moved away from this kind of deckbuilding in Modern, since the digging tools are so bad. I think consistency by redundancy is the way to go in this format, and the seven-Anthem build exemplifies this concept. More about consistency by redundancy in my piece on Faithless Looting (link below).
http://quietspeculation.com/the-perfect-format-modern-sleepers-part-1/

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By: Tyrannon https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122432 Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:31:04 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122432 HIho, My problem with decks like this is that those anthem effects don’t do anything on their own.
running 7 of them is nice, but what do you think about the new anthem Gideon for 4 mana.
He doesn’t fit into the plan Anthem follow up with a creature, but if you have problems finding a Anthem in the Midgame i can assume you got 4 mana already.
In this case it is the needed anthem.
But if you topdeck Gideon on an established board it is so much more.
Having all those Vigilance guys also proofs to be an efficient Wall for him.

Did you ever Brew a fair deck with Jeskai Ascendany in Modern? I’m working on a Jeskai Token deck and am quite stuck there.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122431 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 19:19:17 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122431 In reply to DNLK.

Actually, thanks to the turn 4 rule, combo decks really suck in Modern. As of today, the only “combo” decks in Tier 1 are Twin (if you combine both Grixis and UR) and Infect, and Bolt does a lot of work against both of them.

The combo decks in Tier 2 are Amulet Bloom, Living End, Scapeshift, and Ad Nauseam. In my experience, Bolt decks can race all of these options pretty reliably. Some Bolt decks, like Twin or Delver, even have a ton of game against the other combo options because of their control elements (Remand, Stubborn Denial, etc.). Sure, games are easy when your opponent has “unplayable draws.” But Bolt goes to the face. That’s why it’s so good: it’s never an unplayable draw.

Even if none of that were true, those decks are Tier 2, meaning they’re relatively under-represented compared to the other decks in Modern, against which Lightning Bolt supposedly has more relevance.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122430 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 19:12:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122430 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

That’s why I moved towards the 7-Anthem variant, which lands them pretty consistently. I’m also really happy when opponents Decay an Anthem and not a Mantis Rider / Serra Avenger, since I often have another one at the ready. They were actually so consistent in that build that I trimmed the number from eight to seven.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122429 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 19:11:37 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122429 In reply to haexxx.

No set date for the article yet yet. The hands definitely take some getting used to, more than Monkey Grow or iGrow hands IMO. But Counter-Cat does eat aggro. My girlfriend plays it and I can’t for the life of me beat her with another Delver build, either. Take a look at my MTGSalvation primer for more info on the deck. As of today it’s a bit outdated, but the fundamentals still stand and my most recent list is at the end of the thread.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/573218-counter-cat

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122428 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 19:09:38 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122428 In reply to Jesse White.

The curve is way too high to get any mileage out of Day’s Undoing. More on how to properly build around and cast that card here:
http://quietspeculation.com/best-of-both-worlds-your-weekly-undoing-digest/

Shoal is also better in Delver decks since you want to hit specific cards there, but it’s still testing very well in these decks.

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By: haexxx https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122427 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122427 Hi, Jordan.
I thanks for the article. I always enjoy reading your write-ups.
But i have a probelm. I played a monkey grow and iGrow a bit (i even bought the Goyfs and I blame you for having nothing to eat^^), but you wrote Counter Cat would be the best Grow deck in the aggro and midrange filled meta. In my hands the deck always seems worse than the others. Do you have some advice? Do you know when your Counter Cat article on Modernnexus will be up?

Greetings

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By: Jesse White https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122426 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 18:26:37 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122426 Nice builds, yours and the original. If any deck could make disrupting shoal shine in modern, it would be this one; the curve seems taylor-made to shoal. Could day’s undoing be a sideboard option? Hasty flying beef might like it.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122425 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 17:52:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122425 Interesting deck concept, I’d expect it to be pretty wobbly though as games without an anthem will probably end poorly most of the time. Denial without ferocious is meh, and a bunch of guys that die to bolt is pretty bad.

Even when you draw it, it can still get remanded, spell snared, or abrupt decayed so its by no means a sure t2 resolution.

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By: DNLK https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/the-bolt-test-moderns-high-water-mark/#comment-2122424 Fri, 09 Oct 2015 17:09:24 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4972#comment-2122424 Another way to go around bolt is just not play any creatures. Yeah, I mean combo decks that are very good in game one when your opponents always have a ton of unplayable draws in their deck.

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