Comments on: Revisiting Ojutai’s Command https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Mon, 07 Dec 2015 01:46:52 +0000 hourly 1 By: Richard Carlton https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122879 Mon, 07 Dec 2015 01:46:52 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122879 Hi Sheridan, I am a frequent reader, so imagine my delight to see you mention my deck in your article! Your analysis was great and I agreed with all of your observations! It was a pleasure seeing someone talk about my build. I have been playing the new Jace in Modern since it arrived in Origins. First in Esper, then in Jeskai, now back to Esper. I see some of the criticisms over my card choices, but to me, the card I wanted to get maximum value out of was Jace, not O-Command. I wouldn’t play O-Command without Jace, and my plan wasn’t to try to break O-Command, but to get maximum value out of Jace and to out-grind the grindy decks. The IQ itself was rather small, about 35 people if I recall. I beat UR Twin, UG Infect, RG Tron, and Merfolk in the Swiss. I then intentionally drew in the 5th round to Top 8. I beat the Merfolk deck again and amusingly enough, lost to Jund in the Top 4, one of the decks I thought I had the best match against. I don’t see Supreme Verdict and Inquisition being mutually exclusive, and they were both great the entire day. I felt comfortable being able to “cover the field” because as you pointed out, having Jace means you have more flexibility with your card choices as he can loot away what you don’t need. Jace was an amazing card for me and when unchecked, he stole the game. Even when the Twin player bolted him, then Snap-bolted him again later after I resurrected him with O-Command, it didn’t feel bad because I forced him to react and to use his spells in a way he probably didn’t want to. I like my build here because as you said, it allows you to be proactive. In fact, I drew inspiration for this deck from its Grixis cousin. I see some people talk about counterspells not being great with Jace, but I am running 4 Snaps, and they are obviously great with Snapcaster. As you implied, Mana Leak is a necessary evil for control decks in Modern and the “non-bo” with Path is also an unfortunate necessity for an Esper colored deck. However, I will say that in my experience, the pros of having a hard counter and an efficient removal spell outweigh the cons of the “non-bo.” Strangely enough, I also argue that having Path and Ghost Quarter together is actually more powerful, as at some point in the long game you will likely either have a Wasteland or a Path without “downside.”

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122878 Fri, 04 Dec 2015 05:53:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122878 In reply to Dave Moore.

Jeskai Midrange sounds interesting, now that I think about it. It has a great removal selection, cantrips, Snapcaster, and now it’ll have ways to revive guys for value. Nice idea.

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By: Dave Moore https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122877 Fri, 04 Dec 2015 00:13:50 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122877 I think we all agree that Jace plus Ojutai’s Command is very strong, but more quality two drops are needed for a deck to arise. My initial idea is a jeskai list with Jace and Young pyromancer along with lots of cantrips and burn spells/removal.

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By: Chris Watson https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122876 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 16:46:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122876 In reply to Dan.

This is a Bant control list I’ve been working on that tries to play out like the Grixis control decks currently seeing play but with even more grinding power and some better anti-aggro options. I play Mardu so I don’t own most of the cards I need for this. I’m sure most will think 8 four-drops is crazy but with Noble Hierarch and Remand to help get you to turn 4 I think the payoff is potentially worth it. I’m finally proxying it up now…

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-command-and-control/

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122875 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:40:01 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122875 Interesting revision of Ojutai’s Command. I saw it put in some decent work in UW Titan Control decks, but it seems those are falling out of favor of late. I like it in “traditional” UW Control, but I feel that your concerns regarding reactivity are valid. That said, I’m with one of the previous posters in that the Esper deck looks far too unfocused to truly make use of it. I’m thinking a UW or Esper Midrange shell is probably where this card truly wants to be, and I think it has a nice niche alongside Cryptic Command there (less U-intensive).

That said… why would anyone run Arashin Cleric over Lone Missionary when the goal is to thwart aggro and maximize the potency of Ojutai’s Command? Missionary’s 2 power let it actually trade with attacking creatures, which takes their guys off the board and gives you opportunities for more value with Ojutai’s Command. Furthermore, you get more life per casting. I’m really puzzled by that call.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122874 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 04:03:00 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122874 In reply to bill_zagoudis.

Jeskai is one of the better venues for OC, and I’d love to see more Jeskai decks make it with a combination of Jace and the Command. Definitely let us know if you get any results!

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122873 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:59:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122873 In reply to Christopher Wendelboe.

Those are interesting synergies! Seems like a good singleton bullet in versions of that deck, although the BtL Scapeshift builds haven’t made a lot of noise recently.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122872 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:59:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122872 In reply to Dan.

Interesting idea! It’s still unclear to me if Bant is really what you want to be doing in Modern; if Sultai can’t cut it for lack of Bolt, I’m sure Bant will suffer a similar fate. But it’d definitely be worth some testing!

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122871 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:58:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122871 In reply to B8R.

As I indicated in the article, OC’s viability depends a lot on there being grindy decks to beat. That’s where the card is at its best, although it’s not abysmal in more aggressive metagames as long as you have the right shell. I’ll definitely grant it’s terrible in combo metagames, but it’s more workable where other decks have a higher share.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122870 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:56:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122870 In reply to Anonymous.

To me, this feels more like a metagame call than anything else. The guy must have expected an incredibly aggressive field, and wanted the IoK and Verdicts to address that. He’s not even in that heavily on the Verdicts at just two copies, which he can ship away through scrying or just discard via Jace. As for Leak and Path, that’s existed in Modern for ages. Numerous Modern pros have used the cards together because it’s the best UWx has in Modern, including Shaun McLaren, a longtime Jeskai aficionado.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122869 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:52:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122869 In reply to Anonymous.

Grixis is not currently tier 1 but it’s certainly tier 2, and it was absolutely tier 1 earlier this year. We just go where the data takes us, and with Grixis Midrange making Top 8 at Pittsburgh (with other copies in the T32), along with its wider metagame performance, it’s fair to say this color pairing is here to stay. Indeed, the collective metagame share of Grixis decks is currently 7%-8%, all based around Kolaghan’s Command, Tasigur, and other traditional Grixis synergies. It was significantly higher early in the year as well.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122868 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:50:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122868 In reply to DNLK.

I don’t think tempo is where you want OC to do its job. Tempo decks aren’t currently playing Cryptic, and they really can’t support a 4 CMC card on their curve, at least not without disrupting other elements of the deck. You could eke by with 22 or so lands (as Grixis Control strategies have done) if you lean on cantrips, but that’s still not what I want to be doing with Delver.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122867 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:48:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122867 In reply to Anonymous.

I’m sorry you feel that way. Given our traffic numbers and other feedback I’m going to have to disagree, but I’m happy to hear areas where you feel the content could be improved. As for Jace’s functionality with countermagic, at no point am I really drumming up Jace’s synergy with the counterspells themselves. It’s mostly his synergy with the recursion mode, which is pretty clear in the article.

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By: DNLK https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122866 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 00:48:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122866 There’s promo Ojutai’s command sitting alone in my portfolio alongside Paths and Delvers and I somewhy think they could get along. Sure, 4 mana spell is a little bit too much for tempo driven deck, but who can blame for trying? Some weird Jeskai Delver brew maybe could be a place?

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122865 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 00:46:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122865 Jace is garbage with counterspells – I dont mind ppl speculating on deck builds but at least be balanced with your assessment of them. Modern nexus is turning to shit lately

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122864 Thu, 03 Dec 2015 00:41:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122864 Grixis is not top tier – what is with modern nexus and its rediculous push to make Grixis something that it is not – the deck is mediocre

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122863 Wed, 02 Dec 2015 20:34:09 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122863 The esper deck looks horribly unfocused to me. Inquisition and Verdict in the same deck (Cut one or the other, don’t make bad hedges in a format like modern)? Leak and Path together? I think a proactive Esper strategy is probably very good in modern, but a lot of card choices are just baffling or outright incorrect.

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By: B8R https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122862 Wed, 02 Dec 2015 19:26:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122862 I’d be on board with this card if:
1) it wasn’t a tad too slow for the format as it stands now.
2) it wasn’t very vulnerable to dispel, which is proving to be a format staple.

These are factors that have also pushed out Cryptic Command to some degree. I could see a day when it is viable, but it’s going to sit on the shelf for now for me.

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By: Dan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122861 Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:51:11 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122861 Wonder if some sort Bant deck will be viable with Ojutai’s Command. Mana dorks/ramp that hits the needed mana faster, returning goyfs to play, KnightFall, etc.

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By: Christopher Wendelboe https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/12/exploring-flipwalker-jace/#comment-2122860 Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:56:49 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=5810#comment-2122860 Another place Ojutai’s is relevant is in the Bring to Light versions of Scapeshift. Many of the modes are great in various matchups, and being able to return Sakura-Tribe Elder is amazing. 4 mana for a basic land ramp plus draw a card OR counter a creature OR gain 4 life is pretty amazing (especially as the tribe elder often times will gain you life by chump blocking itself).

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