Comments on: Modern Banlist Predictions for January 18, 2016 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 16 Jan 2016 06:52:25 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123412 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 06:52:25 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123412 In reply to James Kim.

How the hell did you do that?

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By: Pittsburgh Phil https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123411 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 06:29:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123411 In reply to James Kim.

SPOT ON:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/january-18-2016-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2016-01-18

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123410 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 00:15:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123410 Well to be fair wizards has way to much involvement on their ideas of what a format should be. Or shall we say, the new people in charge have a completely different approach. They make it pretty clear that they don’t like blue, they make it pretty clear they don’t want their stuff countered. That is why we have seen all situational counters or every counter costs 3 or you have to jump through hoops to make it decent. Also note how they won’t reprint a 4 mana wrath, instead making it 5 mana. Now maybe they reprint damnation but it will only be in modern masters most likely. So they are making counters worse and wraths slower and they are tacking spells onto oversized and undercosted creatures. Also the removal is getting more conditional and more expensive.
Now if they want to make creatures stronger, that is fine, i’m not against it, but I just don’t know why we can’t get a regular old counterspell in modern. I mean it is a card for a card. It’s not broken and it is very fair. That would help make control a more legit contender in modern thus balancing the format.
I guess I don’t see why wizards hates counters but they are ok with discard? Without a true control deck in modern, we are always going to have these types of metas.

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By: Mikefon https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123409 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:48:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123409 In reply to Anonymous.

Wizards wants modern to be a “creature” format, wants players using creatures to win a modern match. Hence, no counterspell reprint but just negate. The first 20 deck types (>64%) of the current meta (according to mtggoldfish) use creatures to win the match and only about 5% of this meta decks can win without using combat (11% considering tron that in any case does use creatures to win!), while more than 20% of legacy decks can win without using creature (miracles and storm and maybe some more). That’s also why it’s very improbable they ban splinter twin. It’s a combo, but it’s a creature based combo (that doesn’t violate turn 4 rules).
Preordain will push more combo decks than the controls.
Last: Modern has so many good police card but they aren’t counters. Why it must be “good police card=good counter”?
Just my 2 cents.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123408 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 02:02:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123408 I think bloodbraid elf would be fine if the card didn’t come with haste. It’s hard to say that un-banning that and jace the wallet breaker balances out but it would be fun to see a modern format with more unbans and better police cards in the format so we could see decks run at their true potential. I like the idea of a less blue version of legacy. By making counterspell legal and maybe banning serum visions and unbanning pre-ordain we could give control decks a little better cantrip and catch-all answer to the format. People think that blue might become too powerful but without a jace mind sculptor control still lacks a viable finisher for the modern format or at least one that doesn’t cost 6 mana in an elspeth or aetherling type of card. Plus a real lack of Card advantage or a way to rebuild a hand is one thing to note as well. But let’s keep making our voices heard, speak and write to wizards to put pressure on them to be more clear on their banlist, to give modern better police cards so we can help make this format the best it can be.

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By: Jake https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123407 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:20:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123407 In reply to James.

The theory doesn’t hold water, considering that Aaron Forsythe has said R&D had no expectation that Collected Company would see play in any format, not to mention spawn entire decks in Modern. Collected Company wasn’t anything close to a plant to make up for banning Pod, the timing was just a coincidence.

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By: James Kim https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123406 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:58:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123406 Amulet and Splinter twin is gonna get banned
No Unbans

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By: Martin Ferdinand https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123405 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:10:14 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123405 In reply to Andrew Russo.

Good points, though I could see a few decks not wanting it. The first that comes to mind is abzan company since it doesn’t really fit the gameplan and fitting in 2 more non-creature spells could be rough.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123404 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 06:37:23 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123404 In reply to James.

That’s a nice observation!

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By: Banana-King https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123403 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 06:09:35 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123403 ban summer bloom and errata the rules so that u can only play 2 lands from your hand at any turn.

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By: rob https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123402 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 05:56:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123402 In reply to Anonymous.

a jund player can dream of a unbanned Bloodbraid Elf right? =(

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123401 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 05:30:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123401 I can’t say I agree with the mainstream ban opinions on bloom. I have been advocating for a long time to ban hive mind and slayers stronghold together. Since when has wizards banned a niche part of a combo deck? To be fair, amulet is like no other combo deck we have ever seen. Storm being the broken and poorly designed mechanic is in another league of its own and for the sake of format health due to price and boring un-interactive play (with no card like FoW) in the modern levels.
Hive mind is an abuser. stronghold with titan is oppressive. Lets be fair, how many times after a titan resolves is stronghold not being sought after right away? Only if the person removes the titan with the land search triggers on the stack most likely. So yes, its one card, but it is only a one of since they can tutor for it everytime and is integral to the titan strength.
Also ffs banning a card in infect? Really?? The deck has always hovered around 5% of a metagame, meaning you will hardly ever play against this deck at a normal grand prix. Also for become immense to have an impact you need a graveyard, plenty of graveyard hate, and you need a creature, all of infects are 1/1’s for the most part and easily removed or disrupted by every single color.
Hard to imagine them unbanning jace, the wallet breaker but I think he actually would be pretty exciting to see in action. Blood braid elf is too strong, cascade is among the most degenerate mechanics, pending from not very impactful to game-breaking, but always a 2 for 1. Also I agree, jund is good so why make it better? mostly agree with everything else.

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By: Josh S https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123400 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 03:53:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123400 In reply to Josh S.

It should be noted that when I asked “When was the last time you played Modern?”, I didn’t mean to come across condescending, although I realize that I certainly came off that way. The reason I asked is because if you played Modern a lot around 1-2 years ago, then you would remember a lot of Nacatl decks. I know a lot of players who faded out of Modern for a while around this time period, coming back with questions like “has Faeries been banned yet?”, due to Faeries getting some hype (especially locally) at the time. These are all very good players, they were just a bit out of touch with the metagame, and I found this to be the most likely scenario for somebody asking for a Nacatl ban.

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By: Josh S https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123399 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 03:49:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123399 In reply to Anonymous.

Well . . . no? Modern is about 5.5% Burn, and somewhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of Burn decks run Nacatl (it’s hard to get exact numbers for this, because in terms of Modern, Nacatl Burn hasn’t been making waves for long). Zoo is maybe 2.5% of Modern, including Suicide Zoo. Naya Company comprises perhaps another 1.5%, and Knightfall perhaps 1%, with less than half of those lists playing Nacatl (accurate numbers for most of these decks are hard, because, with the exception of Burn, they’re fringe at best).

So, all in all, about 7.5% of Modern decks run Nacatl, meaning I underestimated slightly, but not by much. Additionally, about 40% of these decks (Burn and Knightfall) don’t even necessarily run Nacatl, so banning Nacatl doesn’t really hurt those decks.

Perhaps your meta is skewed towards more budget-friendly decks, but competitively, Nacatl is just a semi-relevant card. It doesn’t facilitate Modern’s best Aggro strategies, it doesn’t have an unduly large impact on competitive play (a 1-mana 3/3 is always strong, but Modern can handle it just fine), and it is nowhere near warranting a ban. If you have trouble beating Nacatl, play decks that beat Nacatl.

Also, Knightfall is far beyond “getting popular”. It got some hype after BFZ release, but it’s not really a fast-growing deck anymore. It sees about as much play and attention as most other tier-2.5 decks, making it relatively stable. Bx Heartless Eldrazi is the current hype deck, I believe.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123398 Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:57:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123398 In reply to Anonymous.

Not to mention Knightfall decks, which is a new combo type deck getting popular… when is the last time you’ve played Modern Joshy Josh?

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123397 Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:55:52 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123397 In reply to Josh S.

There are a LOT of Burn, Zoo, and Naya CoCo decks out in the real world, since they are some of the cheapest options to build. At least in my meta, probably yours, too, if you pay attention.

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By: Josh S https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123396 Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:29:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123396 In reply to Anonymous.

When was the last time you played Modern? Wild Nacatl is in somewhere around 5% of decks (not 100% sure of this number), and it’s bad in a majority of those decks (Nacatl Burn).

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By: David Ernenwein https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123395 Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:28:59 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123395 In reply to James.

That’s a bit too coincidental and is only one datapoint, so don’t read too much into that. That being said, if something like what you suggest does happen then we have an actual basis for future speculation.

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By: James https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123394 Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:06:35 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123394 After thoroughly examining the spoiler, remembering how Wizards released Collected Company shortly after the banning of Birthing Pod as a sort of pseudo-replacement, could it be possible that Wizard’s may indeed be banning Ancient Stirrings and replacing it with Oath of Nissa? It grabs most everything Tron wants access to other than it’s non-creature artifacts which are primarily mana-fixers and tutors whilst also promoting further diversity (Tron could look into running Planeswalkers from outside its colors). Just a thought, but it seems Wizard’s like to hamper unniteractive decks without neutering them, and all though Tron hasn’t risen to high metagame levels as of yet, from discussion in person and online it seems to be on the upswing.

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By: Andrew Russo https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/01/modern-banlist-predictions-for-january-18-2016/#comment-2123393 Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:00:29 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=6576#comment-2123393 After discussing the affects Stoneforge would have on modern with some fellow players, I brought up your point that a strike against an unban is its potential to wreck havoc on the format’s aggro decks. But it was brought to my attention that many aggro decks would just play Stoneforge themselves — the suggestion being that this essentially equalizes its imapct on the format vis-a-vis its influence on aggro decks. I found this consideration rather persuasive.

That being said, it seems, then, the major strike against an unban is not its negative impact on aggro decks but rather the fact that every deck playing white would jam 4 Stoneforges — aggro, midrange, and control alike. You do seem to hint at this above, but don’t emphasis it enough. Subsequently, the inevitable price spike would also not be great for an already expensive format. As you point out with respect to Jace, Wizards is surely aware of an unban’s potential to have negative consequences here as well.

Any thoughts on these points? Any reason to believe that Stoneforge wouldn’t be played in every deck playing white (presuming she’s unbanned)?

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