That is honestly what I expected to happen since I first saw the Pro Tour results, and yes, precedent is absolutely the best explanation. They need to **put the brakes on** this monster and then re-evaluate. They can always try unbanning one of them later if the new data permits it.

One other reason to can both: Public Relations. There are folks quitting Modern over this. They can’t just replace them overnight but by taking an obvious FULL Measure here and not a tentative, cautious ‘half measure’ (i.,e. banning only one) they send a stronger signal to the quitters. And then they also can avoid any community grumblings of “Oh my God, they f’d up the banning too…NO HELP AT ALL, THANKS WIZARDS!!!!” >:( And then they lose a ton MORE players, fairly or (probably) not. So yeah, just rip the Band Aid off completely, get it over with. And then leave this controversy behind in the dust.

I really wants to believe this could lead to some unbans. I personally really hope Stoneforge gets a chance. But unfortunatly I think this will be prompt the exact opposite. I think they will be extremely conservative going forward fearing a broken meta again.
And if anything gets unbanned I will be shocked If its not visions – though I hope im wrong.

This

If it’s another deck archetype, it adds to the format, which I’m all for.

When it warps the meta to the extent we are seeing then my enthusiasm wanes. But that said my enthusiasm for modern waned when I was playing against three different twin decks and burn every time I sleeved up my latest janky combo deck too.

What I’d hate to see in Modern is the most popular/hated/winning-est deck get a card or two taken off them every ban season rolls around.

I think in the case of Eldrazi you have to look at banning Eye of Ugin, just because it’s a flat reduction in costs, it doesn’t tap. Over two turns it can effectively “generate” (for want of a more accurate term) 4 mana (or more in very good hands) on turn two. I am assuming one eldrazi mimic for free on turn one or two and 2 mana off any other eldrazi on turn two. We all know that isn’t the best opening Eldrazi has either.

I would also be willing to at least attempt a non-land solution (and I base this suggestion on looking over the deck lists and saying “hmm, that’s the one that puts them over the edge”) and I would line up Reality Smasher.

Eldrazi Mimic and Thought Knot Seer are good, really good truth be told, but they are both interact-able to some extent and they have no evasion to speak of. Reality Smasher, with it’s trample, haste and an auto 2-for-1 when it’s hit with targeted removal is the one I think is most damaging for the turn three plays of other modern decks.

I’m OK with there being a different tier one deck in the format. I just want to lose to a variety of decks with my heartless summoning/myr retriever/altar of the brood combo deck.

I agree with this and hadn’t thought about it really until you list them out like that. Certainly precedent. Though it will make me sad if they ban both. I really do think eldrazi would be a cool addition to the metagame if it wasn’t so oppressive. I do think that with all the meta gaming that’s been happening, modern could contain a one-sol-land eldrazi deck

Just as a follow up to this, and I know it’s anecdotal, but it will illustrate what I’m talking about.

Last night played against u/w Titan control. I actually really liked the deck. Ran flicker wisp (probably as a two of) and super sweet phantasmal image tech. First game I nut drew eye of ugin and 2 endless ones t1 into t2 thought knot t3 smasher. Unbeatable. Game 2 they went off. Image copying thought knot is pretty sweet even if the image is fragile. But it got even dirtier as the game went on because their Titan brought back image copying Titan bringing back flicker wisp on the original Titan bringing back wall of omens. This was the turn or two after a sweeper. Literally build your own army with 1 Titan.

Game 3, though exemplifies what I’m talking about in my previous post, though. I get on board starting from t1 mimic off a temple into various other drops ending in a oblivion sower. They wrath and I immediately drop smasher plus activate mutavault to get in for 7. They stabilize next turn with an illusion copying sower, but I just leave mana open to tutor an endbringer off eye. I (luckily) rip a dismember so I bait two leaks in the enbringer and then dismember their image after they tap out to swing for lethal. Again, anecdotal, but exemplary of the type of games that play out. I should also mention that I thought knotted a path somewhere in game three and played around the mana leak for the rest of the game.

Lastly, while not close to twin in the combo respect, reality smasher does provide that same “am I dead next turn” feeling that you have to take into account when deciding to leave back blockers or keep a card to pitch to removal on smasher.

Yes! Very fair and balanced KappaHD

True! It will also hopefully create enough incentive for Wizards to start testing for Modern, something they desperately need to do.

There’s an interesting debate about the Temple vs. Eye issue. On the one hand, Temple leads to the most consistently problematic plays, like T2 Seer and T3 Drowner. On the other hand, Eye leads to the most explosive plays, like T1 Mimic/Endless One vomits. I can see Wizards hating both for different reasons. Honestly, they might just ban both, following the Caw Blade SFM/JTMS ban, the Affinity Ravager/Lands ban, and the Delver TC/DTT ban models. The precedent is definitely there!

Forsythe and the rest of Wizards are right to wait. Modern is likely to recover from the Eldrazi dominance and be totally fine by June, assuming a much-needed April ban. But an emergency ban would set a terrible precedent. It’s only been done once in the game’s history under a totally different set of circumstances. Not even Affinity or Caw Blade warranted an emergency ban. Wizards doesn’t need to add even more ban mania to Modern by doing this, and I applaud them for waiting. The risks are too high and the costs of waiting are relatively low.

Honestly, Eldrazi is Tier 0 and the rest are all Tier 1. Future updates will probably reflect that, once we have enough data from the GPs. Or maybe Eldrazi gets reined in and the share drops down low enough to not be Tier 0. We’ll have to wait and see! My guess is we see an April ban, HOPEFULLY an April unban as an apology (although I can see Wizards wanting to wait and see because they are overly cautious), and the format ending up to be just fine.

Agree with Jacob that you shouldn’t worry about the mana unless it’s en route to doing other things (e.g. Seas as a cantrip). Attacking their creatures works, as we saw with UW Control. Abzan Company does well too, combining a value-oriented creature plan with a combo Plan B. I’d avoid pure synergy-based decks, as TKS, Dismember, and Path screw those up too much, and I’d avoid things like Delver that try to get small edges; the Eldrazi are just too powerful for those decks to fight.

That’s what I’ll be doing until then! Although at a certain point, I’m transitioning to my high-level Modern policy/management series, or brewing in anticipation of the eventual ban. No reason to assume we’ll be living under the Eldrazi shadow in April at this rate…

It’s pretty bad and I see no sign of improvement until at least the GP (and even that is a faint hope). I’m unlikely to attend GP Detroit as a result, although I admit it wasn’t a sure thing anyway, but I’ll probably post some test results next week to give people an idea of where I was going into the event.

I’m still salty about ravager affinity in standard and extended. Some day I’ll move on to complaining that the skill testing caw blade metagame is gone.

Jacob, thanks for your reply and let me explain.

The first key problem with your comment is that you assume I’m only talking about the colorless version (with its top deck chalices and what not). Granted, my reference to end bringer may point you in that direction, but also recognize that against the decks where inevitability matter (midrange and control, basically any deck that isn’t trying to win fast or combo you out) the chaff you point to is removed after sideboard and you are indeed top decking gas the entire time. As for the other builds of eldrazi, let’s just say drowner/worldbreaker etc are better top decks than anything Jund can muster (and we are 4 of a lot of these threats, Jund usually just 1 of a 4 drop or whatever). Also, the ten lands thing, you will definitely get that far against the kinds of decks I described, and when you do, dropping something, albeit just a mimic for free of the eye, can prove troublesome of you are doing it every turn.

But I guess that just goes to show what I mean: perhaps my argument of “this deck has aggressive nut draws but also game winning inevitability” sounds so strange because the deck is actually busted beyond belief.

Btw, if I haven’t addressed your points or you are still having trouble with my post, it’s also possible I did not understand yours, so let me know if I didn’t address your questions

I find your ideas rather bizarre, boogelawoof. You acknowledge T1 Mimic into T2 Seer as a “nut draw”, but regard Eldrazi following up a Wrath effect with perfectly on-curve threats for turns 4-6 or so as being consistent enough to build an argument around. That seems like a mind-boggling double standard. They have at least a little bit of control over their opener (via mulligans), but by turn 4 they’ve emptied or nearly emptied their hands, and their draw steps have a lot of “duds” they can hit: SSG, Chalice, Gut Shot, Mimic, Eyes #2-4, plus just plain old extra lands like everyone else.

It’d be neat if somebody could do the math to see the odds of getting the “nut draw” you defined and compare it to the odds of the kind of topdecks you’re describing. I imagine it’s a lot more likely to face a Mimic/Seer opener than to see a Wrath get followed by a series of late-game powerhouses.

I would also point out that “until I have enough lands to literally drop threats every turn” is like, what, ten lands? After all, none of the “sol lands” help with that 7-mana tutor, so you need 8 lands plus however much it takes to cast your threat. That’s enough lands that anyone who let Eldrazi get there without finishing the game deserves what’s coming.

It’s funny how contentious the eye vs temple argument is. I personally have been in the eye train since the beginning. At first because of the puking out your hand reason, but quickly changed to inevitability reasons after actually playing the deck. That said, eye itself is pretty bad in the first couple of turns if you are not dropping a bunch of mimics and endless ones.

Again, my main argument is that curved out draws, though with only one creature a turn, are more manageable than 2-3 creatures on turn one. I think the fact that eye gives he deck the same kind of inevitability as tron is really the deal breaker over temple