Comments on: Opinions, and How to Beat Eldrazi https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 23 Feb 2016 22:05:12 +0000 hourly 1 By: Lee Mather https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124665 Tue, 23 Feb 2016 22:05:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124665 My list has massive success against Eldrazi (Anecdotal evidence however, seek ye statistics from elsewhere)

4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Forked Bolt (Brought in specifically for the 2/1 Eldrazi)
4 Electrolyze (Again, brought in for x/1 Eldrazi)
4 Remand
4 Flame Slash (Not my ideal choice I board this out against non-creature type stuff)
2 Keranos, God of Storms

4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Welding Jar

6 Fetch lands
4 Steam vents
5 Mountain
1 Island
4 Ghost Quarter

Resolved bridge + welding jar = GG in 90% of games as their removal in the form of ratchet bomb can’t kill it fast enough for me to not draw to 20 burn.

Keep them off Eye of Ugin with Ghost Quarter.

Turn two Thought-knot is an issue. Especially when you are on the draw and it picks off ensnaring bridge. Hence flame slash.

Keranos does work. I’d consider dropping it to a one of and putting a singleton Mom and Pop Thopter Shop in though.

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By: Prokopis Zarkadas https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124664 Sun, 21 Feb 2016 21:23:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124664 please, can someone post 20 cards (sideboard or main cards) to beat eldrazi…. just the names, not the favorite decklists of article writers?

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124663 Sun, 21 Feb 2016 14:39:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124663 In reply to juan.

Anonymous,

It is clear that you do not understand. I wish you had something more to contribute to the discussion than spam. Ive spoken specifically to the narrative that ” if I don’t think Eldrazi needs to be banned then I don’t understand the fundamentals of MTG”. It is my opinion that differing opinion should not warrant a cry for firing someone. 🙂

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By: John Mattson https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124662 Sun, 21 Feb 2016 05:41:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124662 I have had good success against Eldrazi, with Allies, of all things.

I run an Abzan core with the 2 cost +1 entry trigger allies (Kazandu Blademaster, Hada Freeblade, Oran Rief Survivalist, and Bojuka Brigand). I use Harabaz Druid and Beast caller Savant as Mana Dorks with the upside that they trigger my allies, and Collected Company to speed things up.

I run 4 Chord of Calling mainboard, and run 1 of Kabira Evangel, Lantern Scout, Mirror Entity, Abzan Falconer, Ondu Cleric, and Zulaport Cutthroat, creating a pretty decent toolbox to deal with threats or swing in for the surprise victory.

I run inspiring calls, which are critical against decks with board wipes.

In the sideboard I run Return to the ranks, Path to Exile, Extra Ondu Clerics, and other creature cards to act as tools vs. specific decks/Problems (Pridemage, Scooze, Akoum Battlesinger, Hellraiser Goblin, Blood Artist)

The Lands are basics, Abzan Shocks and fetches, 4 ally encampments (sometimes surprisingly useful), and two Gavony Townships.

Against Eldrazi, it works really well, since they don’t interact much. Allies nut draws are not quite as quick as Eldrazi, (2 turn 1 mimics hardly ever happens, and TKS is not usually turn 2) but they go both wider and bigger. Turn one Hada Freeblade into an unanswered turn two Harabaz Druid/BeastCaller Savant really lets you unload your allies on turn three and Chord/Collected for the win by turn four or five, and seems to happen much more frequently. Ondu Cleric is one of the best cards against Eldrazi because it buys you time while you ramp your allies, and very quickly puts the game out of reach. Vs. Eldrazi, I sideboard two more in, replacing Cutthroat and Evangel.

I mostly play FNM, or with friends,so I haven’t played vs a lot of different people, (Haven’t played the colorless version, so chalice of the void for two could really hurt, with Chord for Qasali Pridemage being the decks only answer). Anyway, the deck is fun. It has some weakness against creature control decks, but I feel it is favored to win vs eldrazi.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124661 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:16:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124661 In reply to Anonymous.

Doing just this as we speak, data incoming. You are correct, I need evidence to back up my claims, keep an eye out for some Proof coming soon!

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124660 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:14:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124660 In reply to Anonymous.

How do you know he hasn’t done any testing? It’s fine to have a different opinion, but don’t present your opinions as facts unless you know they are. This was kind of the sub-point of my article; it doesn’t move the discussion forward in any meaningful way. Thanks for the comment David!

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124659 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:12:21 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124659 In reply to Anonymous.

I’ve been doing some testing and compiling some data, testing specifically Grixis Control against multiple Eldrazi variants. Keep an eye out for some evidence coming soon!

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124658 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:11:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124658 In reply to Anonymous.

I disagree, where I come from they call that “quitting” 🙂

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124657 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:09:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124657 In reply to Jeramie Pfeffer.

Thanks Jeramie! Eldrazi might actually be busted, but that doesn’t mean we should just give up. Since when do we flop down in the dirt and cry when the bully pushes us down? In my opinion, we shouldn’t cry “ban” until we’ve spent at least a few weeks with a deck dominating the top, and the immediate post-Pro Tour outcry was definitely unwarranted. A couple weeks from now, if Eldrazi is still dominating, then I think a calm ban discussion is warranted. Until then, I’m going to keep trying to beat it!

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124656 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:06:38 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124656 In reply to Preston Dell.

Preston, your points make sense, I should have done a better job framing my opinion, this would “probably” have helped those that disagreed with me understand that I do, in fact, know whats going on in the “real world”. Definitely a learning experience and one I will think about in the future!

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124655 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:05:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124655 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Thanks Roland, glad you enjoyed the article! I’ll take all the heat the Internet has to give if it means there’s a dissenting voice to the “emergency ban” opinion. Maybe Eldrazi is too strong, but I’m not ready to give up playing Magic just yet.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124654 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:03:17 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124654 In reply to Anonymous.

I can understand your opinion, but why be pissed? It doesn’t make sense to me. Sure, Wizards has the “power” to get rid of it, but who says we need to stop playing Magic until April? I am of the firm opinion that Eldrazi can be beaten, we’re already seeing evidence of changes to archetypes happening, and I think it’s very possible we can discover a foil to Eldrazi without having to resort to bans. Even if I’m 100% wrong (and I very well could be) I don’t understand the anger over wanting to at least try.

All I’m advocating is that we continue to play Magic and think critically about the metagame. I don’t understand the backlash.

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By: Tobi D https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124653 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:47:59 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124653 +even if a ban is needed we get a free “rotation” which is cool for deckbuilding and unlike standard you do not have to sell and resell strange cards which wont be played anymore after a short period.

And i cant hear the ancient tomb comparisons anymore. Most of the cards in eldrazi versions wouldnt be played without the lands, they are (slightly) overcosted. Ancient tomb does not have the limitation to be used for overcosted cards only.

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By: Tobi D https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124652 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:33:43 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124652 Thank you! Good article! Honestly i am absolutely happy about the rise of the Eldrazi 🙂 It’s an interesting challenge and in my opinion the question will be if the metagame can adopt without using too narrow sideboard cards. If the removal heavy midrange and control decks, affinity, merfolk, chord/company decks etc cant “control” them we could start thinking about banning. Lets see what the open and the grand prixs will be like! 🙂

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124651 Sat, 20 Feb 2016 02:34:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124651 In reply to Lucas.

Completely disagree – you cannot just tune any deck to beat Eldrazi – again this smacks of no testing and not really understanding eldrazi. There is only 1 deck know of that can consistently beat eldrazi – Junk Combo/Chord/Company. All the other decks that ppl posit – including the laughable options that the Modern ‘GURU’ Trevor has put forward fall short – of course he hasnt tested them – but hey – he’s providing an ‘alternative view point’ ..

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124650 Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:06:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124650 In reply to Anonymous.

That’s a great idea. I think Trevor should take our fishy friends out for a spin and see how he does against Eldrazi (Magic Online is absolutely crawling with them, so joining any random league or 8-man virtually guarantees you’ll bump into them).

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By: Boogelawoof https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124649 Fri, 19 Feb 2016 17:10:31 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124649 In reply to Boogelawoof.

I like that line a lot

Or like t1 vial t2 curse catcher/sea’s claim.

Sea’s claim actually looks really solid over spreading seas. I know it cantrips and ultimately might be the better card, but I would also test out 4 claim/2 seas as a variant if 8 seems like too many. I don’t think a normal metagame would ever need that split, but it seems very strong against eldrazi to preempt a t3 smasher

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By: Lucas https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124648 Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:36:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124648 Despite the fact that many of these post’s are coming across as harsh and overly critical, they all do have valid points. Sure, you can tune your deck against Eldrazi to get a >50% win percentage against them. The problem is that you are then screwed against the rest of the meta (or at least what remains of the meta). SBs aren’t good enough in this case.

Like others said, put some numbers to what you’re saying. Right now, you’re only stating possible theories, not evidence. Prove what you’re saying by recording several games against Eldrazi players who know what they’re doing, and show us an overall >50% win percentage against them.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124647 Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:36:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124647 Trevor – not only did you not frame or state your point in anyway towards a respectful approach previously – you also did not provide any answers other than some deck ideas that fall woefully short of competitive. Similarly you have done nothing with this follow up article other than fire off a few decks that seem to have cards that could be good against eldrazi (but to anyone that has done any testing – which you clearly havent – knows are bad).

If you are serious and are truly not taking the alternative view point for the sake of taking the alternative view point (which most readers can deduce) put your convictions out there – choose a 75 to play and record evidence of you beating UR eldrazi, colourless eldrazi and RG eldrazi – only then can we really take anything you say remotely seriously. Until then STFU!

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/02/opinions-and-how-to-beat-eldrazi/#comment-2124646 Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:30:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=7666#comment-2124646 In reply to Jiggy.

Yeah man – jam those mana leaks and sweepers – you will surely take down eldrazi. Can you post evidence of this working – that would be great!

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