The key problems in the current formats: 1) Reserved List 2) Banned List 3) Card Pool and Prices.

If your solution carries forward 2/3 of these problems, then it’s really a tiny incremental step that will never garner enough support to shift a company like Wizards.

You need to solve 2/3 problems at minimum to be worthy of support.

An “Eternal” format that would allow Wizards to reprint cards from the Reserved List or to have NO Ban List would be a breakthrough that would shape the game in a meaningful way.

The key problems in the current formats: 1) Reserved List 2) Banned List 3) Card Pool and Prices.

If your solution carries forward 2/3 of these problems, then it’s really a tiny incremental step that will never garner enough support to shift a company like Wizards.

You need to solve 2/3 problems at minimum to be worthy of support.

An “Eternal” format that would allow Wizards to reprint cards from the Reserved List or to have NO Ban List would be a breakthrough that would shape the game in a meaningful way.

… me again!
I honestly feel like there’s opportunity for someone to write an article called “How to save your money to play Magic” when strategies like PTS to savings accts and GTA strategies are examined. Since this is a “financial mtg site” perhaps it would even illuminate other ways for your subs to save some $ even OUTSIDE the game? This could include ways to reduce interest so that you could use that “leftover” $ to put into savings etc. Using a LOC to pay down CC debt and locking in a FRAO would be a viable way to save $ on interest, and use that $ elsewhere…

***Controversial statement alert!***
As an aside, a lot of the comments I’ve read on the net seem to have very… “entitled” sentiments in them. Just like it’s not my “right” to own an Aston Martin when all I can afford is a Pinto, it not a “right” to play legacy and just expect the market to cater to invividuals financial situations. If you want something, GTA to save up for it! If your G (Goal) is to play legacy, and your T (Timeline) is next rotation, what A (Actions) are you taking to meet your G? Are you still pumping $ into modern? Well, that’s clearly not going to get you into legacy unless they’re cross format cards. Do you have a heavy investment in standard? Perhaps part of your A could be to sell some rotating std cards to achieve your G of entering legacy? If all you’re going to do is complain about prices, while not taking action to meet your goals… who’s really at fault here? The RL, or your own spending / saving habits? I literally know people who complain about the cost of legacy but spend $50-$100 on booze every week. Clearly, you want the booze more than the ability to play legacy in this situation. Or the ability to play modern… or buy that video game / system… etc. GTA!

My long story short: I don’t feel this eternal format is necessary. The main culprits for “cost” are the dual lands. Instead of effectively killing the legacy format (see extended -> modern conversion) this could be solved by printing a land “similar” to duals with a slight drawback (ex: when this comes into play, each opponent gains 1 life). This would not only help with sales (who wouldn’t buy into “new duals?”) but also mitigate the cost of duals. Outlier cards that have gained value (ex: city of traitors) are going to occur regardless of format once new tech is discovered (see: nourishing shoal in modern as a previously used example).

In my personal opinion, I feel wotc can do more for legacy by printing “semi functional reprints” rather than alienating the entire legacy player base and creating a format that will simply divide the eternal formats even further…

it does not affect the Rl at all. the thing i feel most people want is reprinted cards for there X format, but what i don’t understand is the idea that we move away from legacy so we can print cards into oblivion. like a comment earlier, magic is an extremely expensive hobby. people drop thousands of dollars on tier 1 decks, theres no reason imo that if your not willing or wanting to spend that much money on magic, then don’t be upset or look for blame at the creators of the game who made a promise they’re still keeping to each and every player they make product for. making a force of will cost 60 instead of 85 doesn’t change the problem, its the attitudes of the consumer. any comment that says theres not enough dual lands to go around obv hasn’t looked on ebay or tcg, there are tons. maybe not at the price you want to pay, but there out there.

The problem with Legacy is that its growth is capped by the RL, because cards will become too pricey and scarce for players to pick up. Duals are over $200 right now and rising, and that’s with dramatically reduced tournament support relative to Modern. Those prices would be astronomical if anyone ever tried to push Legacy as THE nonrotating format going ahead. As such, Legacy players have incentive to migrate to Eternal to support a format that is sustainable and ripe for future growth.

As for Modern players, I believe Eternal is the format Modern should have been but never became. It has a powerful card pool to internally regulate decks, mitigating the need for external regulation and a heavyhanded banlist. Cards can also be added to Eternal via supplemental products to bypass Standard, something Modern doesn’t currently support. This makes Eternal more sustainable than Modern too, as well as healthier in the long-run.

Question here: how does Eternal affect the RL? The whole premise of Eternal is to honor the RL promise and never reprint a single card on that list. If anything, this should make RL-card owners even more confident, because it means Wizards is moving to a format model that forever respects the sanctity of the RL.

I feel like that’s what appeals to a lot of people. Most LGS communities can’t fire legacy tournaments because of card availability. People want to play their stoneblade and splinter twin decks, but there’s nowhere for them to do so other than the one US grand prix every year.

Yes, this format would have a lot of legacy decks and powered up modern decks. It would also have new decks that have never been created before as well. There are a ton of cards that would thrive in this format that are too high cmc for legacy. There’s a bunch of cards that are banned in modern that would thrive here like DRS and Splinter Twin as well.

It has the potential to be the best of both formats, and self governing enough to require less bans than modern, while opening up long term supply with reprints from masters sets.

On the topic of popularity and Legacy, this completely depends on where you live… which is also the same for other formats. There are some communities where Modern just isn’t that popular and people have to drive a ways to find regular Modern play.

That doesn’t mean there’s a problem with Modern (besides the Eldrazi Menace, of course), it just has to do with how people are distributed.

Legacy is extremely popular. Just ask, say, Legacy players. SCG is still running an equivalent 5K every weekend for Legacy except when they’re doing stuff like this weekend and running Legacy as their open format. Plus, virtually every GP has a scheduled Legacy event on offer each day.

Vintage is, and always will be, niche and it’s not even worth bringing into the conversation. Even if the RL were abolished tomorrow and WotC decided to reprint all the cards on there, we’ve seen by what they’ve done with Vintage Masters online and how rare they would want to keep power. Reprints wouldn’t have a marked difference in their prices.

I actually don’t think cost per se is the reason why people are pushing the Eternal format. Players who are interested in this format want a few things:

1. Have enough players to the point where they could find a game within a reasonable distance from their house.
2. Have the card pool as large as possible while still allowing for #1
3. Have a stable format where there is not a lot of banning/unbanning

The cost of the format is not a major concern, other than how it affects the factors above.

Legacy (and Vintage) do not satisfy criteria #1. The existence of the reserved list makes this not possible. If there were ever enough players to make a local game easy to find, the cost of the deck would probably be $10000 purely due to the cost of RL cards. This can never change.

Modern – does not satisfy criteria #2. there are 10+ years of cards that are not legal in this format. Does not satisfy criteria #3 due to frequent bans.

Eternal

1. Popularity – this obviously depends on community/Wizards support
2. Card pool – non-RL Legacy I believe is the largest possible card pool that allows for the possibilty of finding a game at your LGS, since the RL makes #1 unattainable
3. I think the community is hoping that if Wizards does adopt this one day, that it will keep a relatively hands-off approach. I don’t think anyone hopes to see Eternal Pro Tours anytime soon.

The cost is an issue for Eternal in the short term, however in the long term reprints have the potential to keep prices stable while allowing for growth in player base. Using Modern for comparison, it is true that Modern Masters did not make Modern any cheaper, however it allowed for an influx of players while keeping the cost manageable. If there were a large influx of players into modern without Modern Masters, the cost of Modern right would probably be just as high as legacy. With no MM, you would not be able to pay $1000 for a deck in Modern and find a game at your LGS. It would be accessible and cost $5000, or it could cost $1000 but no games to be found.

If Eternal continues to be expensive in the face of reprints, it means that will have been successful in attracting more players. Having reprints cause both an increase in card prices AND a stable or decrease in players does not logically make sense.

The price issue is intrinsically connected to the reserved list and the large motivator behind the format. People aren’t trying to rally philosophically against the RL. They’re trying to get out from under dual land and other RL prices. That’s the core motivation driving the interest.

Reprints do alleviate some of that pressure, but we know it’s not an actual solution because WotC’s reprint leadup can’t react fast enough to meta shifts. Both spikes and buyouts will happen and prices will probably be just as expensive as Modern and maybe as Legacy.

Plus, increased demand in the format will raise prices of weird, unexpected cards. See Serum Visions as a great example. That card has no business being $7 by itself.

Eternal isn’t meant to solve Legacy pricing issue, it is meant to get away from the shackles of the Reserved List that will never go away. Eternal allows for all cards in the format to be reprinted at some point in time, allowing supply to always be able to be increased so prices don’t ever get to ABUR duals level.

Legacy will eventually die or become a shell of itself because of the Reserved List.

Magic is an expensive hobby, as is golf.

It’s insanely foolish to think that some people playing “Eternal” would result in Legacy players no longer playing Legacy. Legacy players play the format because they like it. It’s a lot of fun. They already own the cards.

What motivation would they have to stop doing so even in the slightest? If they want to play a format that feels like a sadly underpowered version of Legacy, Modern is already an option for most people with a Legacy collection.

There’s just too much overlap between Legacy and “Eternal” for both to exist side-by-side and “Eternal” won’t be able to actually grow without buy-in from the Legacy playerbase (who already own the bulk of cards needed to build the decks and immediately flush out the playerbase from day 1).

If the primary group of people that you’re hoping steps up to play “Eternal” are those that are complaining about card prices and then cards get expensive due to hype or popularity, those are the first people that are going to balk and bow out and just stick to Modern.

And it would still be cheaper then legacy.

Modern has been getting better in terms of prices, especially if you are savvy with when you buy your cards. With the exception of a few cards, the MMA reprints helped reduce prices for decks across the board. The point of “Eternal” is that reprints for all cards in the format would now be possible. Buy a playset of those cards now when they are cheap and you won’t need to worry about waiting until the reprints occur. The possibility of reprint is strictly better than the impossibility of a reprint in terms of controlling price.

I, for one, am super ready for “Eternal” to happen, if for no other reason than to stick it to the reserved list and watch the price of those cards drop because nobody plays legacy and those cards any more.

Card prices *right now* aren’t what matter. Card prices after post-hype spikes are what matter. See Tiny Leaders as an analogue: cards that had no appeal prior (oftentimes with very small and only one print run) get very popular or becomes pillars of an archetype and demand jumps through the roof.

The already-high staples (like the 3 you cite) aren’t going to move much. It’s these 2nd tier staples that are newly discovered that you have to worry about. Also consider shocks when Modern was announced. Hallowed Fountain became a $45-50 card overnight!

High format popularity means high demand. High demand means high prices. WotC can’t react to meta shifts with reprints fast enough, so there will always be something super expensive pricing people out of a format or causing enough grief to complain about. I’m sure WotC has good intentions for Modern reprints, but they’re just not nimble enough with their 18+ month ramp up for the most benign supplementary products.

“Eternal” would be no different in this regard.