Comments on: The State of Delver: Adjusting to Metagame Conditions https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sun, 15 Jan 2017 03:44:39 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jonas Wilmoth https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127518 Sun, 15 Jan 2017 03:44:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127518 Hi Ryan,
I have been following your jeskai delver list for some time now, and i have seen you have recently updated it from september. I have to ask, what prompted the change from the 4 remand main to the 4 mana leak?

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127517 Tue, 03 Jan 2017 20:45:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127517 In reply to David Ekstam.

I’ve played a few four color builds on Magic Online. You can’t really go below 22 lands, and you have to be shock heavy. The downside is very high and your spells aren’t demonstrably better, or at least better enough to make up for this. A part of this article was about how I don’t like Helix in a three color build, and it gets even worse once you’re four colors and land heavier given that you need your spells to be higher impact, and are more likely to need to shock to cast it. Four color is an interested experiment, though one that has had unsatisfying results.

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By: David Ekstam https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127516 Sun, 01 Jan 2017 14:46:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127516 What is your take on playing four colours, specifically adding white for lingering souls and path? Souls flips delver, has nice synergy with thought scour and helps the deck grind against GBx decks. I guess you have to run some helixes in order to make up for more fetch and shock lands but lightning helix isn’t that far from what a delver deck wants to do right? Also, timely reinforcements in the side board could really help against Burn…

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127515 Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:46:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127515 In reply to George Kourou.

I like Cavern more than Lighthouse, though Lighthouse is certainly reasonable. The more fair the meta gets, the more playing Remand as the fifth and even sixth counterspell makes sense. Currently I play a Collective Brutality, and that sounds pretty poor against those decks. I’d definitely be happier with a Remand over that. The more general Modern metagame makes me prefer the Brutality though, and I would play that in an Open.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127514 Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:42:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127514 In reply to Jonathan.

The juxtaposition is indeed awkward, and was something that I tried to remedy with different configurations. Ultimately the abstract power of both cards is too high and important in various game ones that you definitely want both in the 75 but can’t reasonably sideboard either. I’ve landed on both and plan to sideboard out one in almost every matchup until a better solution comes to mind.

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By: Jonathan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127513 Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:56:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127513 Hi Ryan! I’ve been playing Grixis Delver for a year and a half now and settled on your build. However, I’ve been looking at possibly building jeskai delver as my second modern deck but I have a question about mana leak and path to exile. Isn’t the interaction a bit counterintuitive since leak is a soft counter and path gives your opponent a land to search? It’s one of the main reasons why I am holding off from investing in jeskai delver. Thanks in advance!

-JN

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By: George Kourou https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127512 Wed, 28 Dec 2016 21:59:27 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127512 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

I am certain he is a good blue control player, but I am certain it’s everybody’s opinion. I am assuming the -no late game- is heading into the No Cryptic Commands territory. But ,and by the way I prefer the No Pyro version and that is the one I am playing on paper, I agree that 4 Snaps- 2 Kolaghan’s Command + many other spells are great going late into the game. A last question, if you please. My meta is heavy on Jund-Grixis Control-Jeskai Nahiri and a generally fair meta. What would you be thinking of as a counter suite in such a meta. Any great tips in specific cards? I already adopted a past idea of yours and am playing a Cavern of Souls in the SB. Should I prefer a Lighthouse over it? And thoughts about the Remand as a card generally in a possible SCG Open? Would you run it or not?
Regards and thanks for your answers.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127511 Wed, 28 Dec 2016 21:07:24 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127511 In reply to George Kourou.

These are the ramblings of somebody who has no idea how to pilot the deck. My build is excellent at going long, and the efficiency allows it to interact favorably against other decks going long. I assume this person does not excel at navigating Snapcaster Mage wars, or understanding the phase of the game. To prefer Pyromancer is one thing, but this person does not demonstrate that they could play my build well if they had to.

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By: George Kourou https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127510 Wed, 28 Dec 2016 20:48:25 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127510 Hey Ryan. Merry Christmas. I want you to answer a question for me, even if I don’t necessarily agree. I saw a comment in a forum today that was reading:
“This (No Pyro Grixis Delver controll-ish) version tries to be this really strange mix of the control builds and a delver deck. I tried that type of build when i first started the deck, and it felt super sloppy, and it was like you were pushing for a lategame while not actually having any lategame yourself. This is the reason i like the jones list (Young Pyromancers + Gitaxian Probes) the most, it isnt trying to fool itself into believing its something its not. By not running pyro, you are pretty much just playing a worse grixis control. Jones’ list has the ability to strongly temp your opponent out of the game, play the control deck, and be an all out aggro monster all in the same build, and even within the same game. This flexibility is what i find so strong in this shell.”

Your opinion?
Regards, George.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127509 Wed, 28 Dec 2016 20:19:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127509 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Geist falls into a category of card that I try to avoid in Modern. It’s only conditionally good. You mention that it’s good if you’re killing everything- but that already means that the deck is executing otherwise. Gideon is better in a larger percentage of situations, and plays defense reasonably well in a pinch, which Geist is horrible at. It’s hard to justify three mana spells that are bad at defense. If you Geist and they just cast Tarmogoyf it’s a real bummer.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/12/the-state-of-delver/#comment-2127508 Wed, 28 Dec 2016 18:30:59 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12614#comment-2127508 I’m a bit surprised that Geist of Saint Traft isn’t somewhere in that Jeskai Delver’s 75. I get that Gideon can be a potent way to close out a game, but a threat that is as hard to kill as Geist can be combined with your piles of removal to clear the way for it seem like a natural fit.

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