Comments on: A New Tool for Control: Evaluating Fatal Push https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Wed, 11 Jan 2017 02:34:05 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127659 Wed, 11 Jan 2017 02:34:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127659 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

In that case I apologize. I did not get that from your post. You’ll definitely be interested in Sheridan’s piece on the matter then, heh.

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By: boltyourlife https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127658 Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:39:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127658 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

p.s. I love your work.

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By: boltyourlife https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127657 Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:03:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127657 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

What?

All I was doing was posting the Facts about the card. Had nothing to do with being “intentionally abrasive”. I’m not one of those people who “leave comments and run” on the Internet. I have a Masters in Economics. I thought it might be useful to provide more data.

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By: ArchDevi https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127656 Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:57:15 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127656 So basically,Abzan goes up, displaces fair decks, and leaves an open field for tron and dredge domination? Exactly what the meta needed /s

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By: Gert Corthout https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127655 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 18:30:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127655 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

Well, that depends. if the Paths stay in (they should IMO) and the push replaces something like the decays the deck gets better vs eldrazi IMO as it can now kill a T1 hierarch efficiently.
In the end the deck has more choices now so it gets better if configured correctly.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127654 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 18:04:34 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127654 In reply to Gert Corthout.

Abzan certainly gets better, though I think this is another spot where the second level of that adaptation is clear- Bant Eldrazi really ends up winning, as I allude to in the article.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127653 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 18:01:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127653 In reply to LejeuneH.

The Delver decklist was included as an afterthought at the end because I knew people would ask about one. The Dredge and Tron sections address your point. As the comment by Gabriel says, GB Tron may be a big winner though.

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By: Gert Corthout https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127652 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 17:33:37 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127652 I agree Fatal Push won’t have much impact on Grixis Delver directly. The creatures don’t really care about it and Bolt is better in its role.
But for a deck like Abzan Midrange, which always lingers around T 1.5 this seems like yet another shot in the arm. It never had an efficient way to deal with dorks, delvers and the like that didn’t outright suck (Disfigure). The one thing Abzanites have to be careful of is replacing their paths with this, because they fill entirely different roles.

I think it will have a noticeable impact on Modern. it won’t kill the aggro decks outrights but especially decks like death’s shadow that used to thrive in bolt-heavy meta’s are going to feel this.

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By: Gabriel Latens Nomem https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127651 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 17:00:15 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127651 If anything, this will push the GB versions of tron with collective brutality over the top, not grixis Delver.

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By: LejeuneH https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127650 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 15:54:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127650 What this article really is about: Why Fatal Push is only good as one-off or two-off in Grixis Delver.

What the author thinks this article is about: Why Fatal Push is overrated in Modern.

What Fatal Push really does: Fatal Push opens up new avenues for decks like UB Control, BUG and UB Faeries to get the kill spells they couldn’t have earlier.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127649 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 14:51:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127649 In reply to Sean Melton.

I didn’t change the sideboard for the purpose of this article, though if we do see a radical metagame shift and/or a banning that will be reason to make some changes.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127648 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 14:50:42 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127648 In reply to Sean Yourchek.

For now I left Surgicals in for this article because I think you have enough stuff for the mirror, though it’s definitely true that Fatal Push will lead to a non-zero uptick in controlling decks. I would like to see which specific strategies emerge before saying anything terribly definitive, but things like an extra land (Cavern of Souls) and more counterspells are where you want to be against blue decks. If Lingering Souls decks show up, you’re going to want to start playing Electrolyzes and possibly a Staticaster.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127647 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 14:46:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127647 In reply to Chris Striker.

People will play new-ish archetypes (Sultai control isn’t really groundbreaking, heh) and some will likely be at least somewhat successful. I found it more important to address that these decks are going to have Dredge and Tron problems, so that was the angle I took. It’s certainly true that they will be better against plenty of decks.

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By: Sean Melton https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127646 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:08:38 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127646 Great article Ryan. Is your sideboard guide still the same as your article on the dredge meta ( http://quietspeculation.com/grixis-delver-dredge-metagame/ ) or has it seen an update? Thank you for any reply.

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By: Aaron Elias Newbom https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127645 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 06:45:01 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127645 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

that makes more sense. i didnt see his comment as very abrasive but it definitely is a refutation. and overall i agree with your point.

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By: Chris Striker https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127644 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:24:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127644 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

I’m sorry you took my reply so negatively. Nonetheless, while I respect your analysis of the card, it’s premised on an analysis of about half of the card’s impact on the format. Enabling new color combinations is, to my mind, at least as important a facet of a card to analyze as is how it improves upon existing strategies, and, to my mind, supplies more of the gas for the kinds of comments about influencing the format that you dismiss at the article head. I’m not suggesting that the article needed to delve into archetypes and strategies you’re unfamiliar with, but presenting half of a card analysis without even a mention of the rest of its impact doesn’t seem like an effective way to tackle this kind of topic.

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By: Sean Yourchek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127643 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:17:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127643 Great article, always interested to hear your angle, though I feel you may be slightly underestimating Push, but I digress. You recently mentioned that if you were to play Grixis Delver, you’d give up the slots dedicated to beating Dredge in favor of making sure your sideboard won you other matchups. If you were to make a sideboard with that philosophy, what would it look like?

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By: Nat Crosman https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127642 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:10:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127642 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

Heh, I’ve been running a BWC Eldrazi Processors deck with 4 MB Relics and 4 Lingering Souls for many months now, and I guess that I want to be “that” deck because in my case that deck just straight up beats the Snapcaster decks.

With fetches and Relic to enable Push, and Souls and Smasher to resist it, I’m thinking my rogue midrange build is looking pretty good going forward.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127641 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 02:39:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127641 In reply to Aaron Elias Newbom.

This was posted as a refutation of my analysis without any consideration for the substance of the article. This comment appears to be intentionally abrasive, and I don’t see how this makes any of my points against the card matter less. Truthfully, my article could easily be a refutation of this comment. I was just saying that those numbers are just numbers. There needs to be analysis to give them meaning.

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By: Aaron Elias Newbom https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/evaluating-fatal-push/#comment-2127640 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 01:16:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12696#comment-2127640 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

Why you gotta be needlessly lashing out at people man.

Last couple of posts you’ve been doing this in all the comments. Seems pretty destructive. This guy was providing interesting data which is a huge part of what this site is about. (Not exclusively of course).

Just seems to be overly harsh as of late for not much reason

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