Comments on: Look Who’s Flooded: Welcoming Combo and Control to Modern https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Thu, 09 Feb 2017 04:40:49 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127876 Thu, 09 Feb 2017 04:40:49 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127876 In reply to Paul Bouhier.

Bolt is clearly a better card than either Push or Path for the very flexibility you mentioned. But Modern is a format dominated by creatures, and unless that changes anytime soon (which it may, as it seems linear combo decks are picking up some steam in the wake of the Infect nerf), the permission deck with the most efficient removal spells will be king of blue.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127875 Thu, 09 Feb 2017 04:38:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127875 In reply to Nikolay Dimitrov.

Living End is great against fair creature decks, and terrible against other combo strategies. So it’s very meta-dependent.

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By: Paul Bouhier https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127874 Mon, 06 Feb 2017 12:55:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127874 Also, I do think it is totally possible to play a hard control draw go deck in jeskai, just look at Wafo’s take on the archertype : it plays a lot of draw power even if esper charm is such a unique and powerful card

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By: Paul Bouhier https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127873 Mon, 06 Feb 2017 12:47:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127873 Nice article ! I play both jeskai (no Nahiri) and esper in modern and I think you forgot an important point : overloading your esper deck with both path and fatal push can lead to unpleasant scenarios where you have a bunch of dead cards against combo and control. Because fatal push, as good as it is, is “just” a removal spell, while bolt and lyze can go to the face, and this plan alongside snapcaster mage is a great way to fight creatures light deck. Don’t get me wrong, I like esper draw go very much and I agree that it is probably better positioned than jeskai in the format now that fatal push is there (because creatures decks are a big part of the format) but the versatility of red removals has to be mentionned I think. It is great to see more tools for control deck, control has always been playable in modern, hopefully it will continue to be

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By: Zach Stackhouse https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127872 Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:15:25 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127872 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Agreed, I just find it funny because this style of combo deck is generally what earns a collective groan from players. You are talking to a guy who entered constructed playing Mind’s Desire in extended!

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By: Nikolay Dimitrov https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127871 Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:36:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127871 What about Living End? It seems like a good time for it to shine

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127870 Sat, 28 Jan 2017 04:00:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127870 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Modern has a way of self-regulating. If Tron starts to show up in frightening numbers, Infect will surely reclaim its lost metagame shares.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127869 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 22:14:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127869 Great read. Im excited to see where things go with less linear aggro (aggro combo?) decks out there. I hope the variety pans out and we dont get stuck just hailing our new tron and valakut overlords!

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By: Francesco Neo Amati https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127868 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:00:43 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127868 In reply to Francesco Neo Amati.

I do respect that you just wanted to focus on reactive Control decks, but wanted to make sure players understand that it’s not the only viable way to play Esper competitively going forward, especially because of Fatal Push. Thanks for a great article, regardless.

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By: Francesco Neo Amati https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127867 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:52:56 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127867 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

The deck plays very few counters and is very disruptive. It’s also resilient to removal, unlike BGx. It’s like a Blue Abzan, but leaning more towards the Control end of the spectrum. The hyper aggressive decks have been fine for this deck with positive %’s vs Affinity, Infect (discard is very good vs them, as is Blessed Alliance and Lingering Souls), Zooicide, etc. The addition of Fatal Push only improves the deck as it does for Draw Go, making Walkers easier to resolve and stabilize post-disruption/removal. The sideboard also turns the corner and pressures with Geist of Saint Traft alongside Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, etc. in the main.

Its proactive design + the ability to pressure makes it a viable approach to Control vs the anticipated shifting meta leaning more towards Combo and Control decks, including Tron (attacking its lands isn’t the only approach to Tron. Disruption + Pressure is another way and Tron players will tell you this, too), while still being exceptionally good vs Midrange (70/30 vs BGx, for instance) and Aggro archetypes.

Its weakest MU was Dredge, Bant Spirits, and U Tron, followed by RG/GW Tron. RG/GW Tron has improved, and Dredge is likely to lose steam. U Tron will likely remain a problem unless the deck incorporates more counters and Clique.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127866 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:47:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127866 In reply to Zach Stackhouse.

Not at all! I know plenty of players who love running decks like Eggs, AN, and Storm. As a Stubborn Denial aficionado myself, I’m also personally itching to pair with these strategies. Grow as an archetype emerged in the first place to destroy linear combo decks, which explains its lackluster performance in a midrange-dominated format like Modern that’s hostile to combo decks by design.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127865 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:45:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127865 In reply to Beryl Lasko.

I think Push is great in this deck, but probably in numbers smaller than 4. IMO we are likely to see lists in the coming months.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127864 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:44:31 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127864 In reply to Tanner Chase.

Oops! Yes they do. Fixed.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127863 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:43:20 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127863 In reply to Francesco Neo Amati.

I wanted to focus specifically on purely reactive control decks, as those are the kind Modern’s playerbase has clamored for over the last few years. I’ll also say that I would never call the Narset Transcendent builds “proactive” and consider this qualifier misguided. They’re still firmly reactive and offer very little in the way of proactivity compared with fellow midrange decks like Jund and Abzan, let alone Modern’s slew of hyper-proactive aggro decks.

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By: Tanner Chase https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127862 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:10:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127862 Minor nitpick but Affinity and Infect share a playset of cards in Inkmoth Nexus

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By: Beryl Lasko https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127861 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 19:00:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127861 Great work! I’m really hoping for a balance of powers this year!

What are your thoughts on Grixis Control utilizing Fatal Push as well? I haven’t seen any lists pop up yet.

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By: Zach Stackhouse https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127860 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:03:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127860 Is it wild to think that a large chunk of the modern community is excited at the prospect of playing with/against a spell-based combo deck?

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By: Francesco Neo Amati https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/welcoming-combo-control-modern/#comment-2127859 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:51:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13091#comment-2127859 I agree that Esper is likely the best shard for Control moving forward, but I was surprised to see no mention of an efficient and disruptive/proactive/tapout control approach (Blue Abzan) via discard (including Esper Charm), removal, Lingering Souls, aggressive and value-based Planeswalkers, and the ability to also pressure and close with less durdling, to the archetype.

Without the intent to promote what I, and many in my community have been playing successfully (which finished 1st and 5th at two IQ’s two weeks ago and was featured by Ross Merriam in a Daily Digest on SCG), this direction has merit in this format moving forward, especially with all the variance in Modern, and at bigger tournaments like GP’s. Fatal Push is excellent here as well.

I think Esper Control can, and will be, viable reactively and proactively – if designed correctly.

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