Comments on: Uncharted Waters: Gwixis Delver in Modern https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sun, 29 Oct 2017 00:37:02 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128904 Sun, 29 Oct 2017 00:37:02 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128904 In reply to Michael Lewis.

What I found in my experiments with Shadow + Delver in the same deck was that Wraith wasn’t at all missed in aggro mirrors, but sorely missed against linear combo and big mana. More on those findings here: http://quietspeculation.com/sleight-tweaks-shadow-delver/

The dedicated Shadow decks run Wraith and can just board him out against aggro decks. Not running Wraith doesn’t give us that option. But there may indeed be a serviceable work-around. Good luck finding it!

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By: Michael Lewis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128903 Sat, 28 Oct 2017 23:53:00 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128903 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Thanks Jordan and I agree…Street Wraith and Delver aren’t an exciting pair deckbuilding-wise. To enable the Shadow’s without the Wraiths, I’m looking at Night’s Whisper in some number either alongside or in place of Chart a Course…to keep a critical mass of self-life drain and keeping sorceries/instant count high. I find the manabase is so painful and with thoughtseize…and deciding that Shadow is much later play in the deck…rather than trying to power him out early I think it fine. I will do some more brewing and testing with Shadow, Delver, and Souls in the same deck….

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128902 Sat, 28 Oct 2017 18:54:18 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128902 In reply to Michael Lewis.

As mentioned above, I do think Tasigur is pretty important to this kind of deck. Lingering Souls appears to plug the same holes as something like Bedlam Reveler, and I think it does a fine job of it—GS already grinds pretty well. I’d be interested in seeing your list and appreciate the Delver vs Inquisition comparison. The main thing I’d worry about is enabling Shadow effectively, since running Delver AND enough lands to support Souls makes it tricky to support Street Wraith.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128901 Sat, 28 Oct 2017 18:52:18 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128901 In reply to Alexander Gnan.

After some more testing, I have found this deck to handle removal quite well, especially thanks to Lingering Souls. But proactive decks that aren’t sufficiently disrupted by our removal suite are a real pain to take down, especially Burn and Storm. Souls will kill our opponent, but it’s simply too slow and mana-intensive against some decks. We really want a threat there we can land for 1-2 mana that resists Bolt and applies pressure without requiring us to spend more mana (i.e. Goyf).

Since Counter-Cat’s grindy plan is actually pretty okay, and when the Gwixis deck wins it’s usually by huge margins, this realization seems to confirm my suspicion of the deck being worse overall than Counter-Cat.

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By: Michael Lewis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128900 Sat, 28 Oct 2017 16:45:18 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128900 I’ve recently started adding Lingering Souls, Chart a Course, and Delver to my Grixi Shadow deck…based of a UB Delver Legacy list that Utter Layton put up…a deck with 8 Delver and 8 Death’s Shadow…because I was sick of drawing air in the stock Shadow lists and not having threats…also to get off the 4 large Delve creature plan…, my thinking was that Delver of Secrets is a bit like Inquisition of Kozilek a lot of the time..usually eats up a push…but against combo decks it becomes a threat…so I think there are ways to come at Gwixis Delver from a design perspective, (coming from MArdu tokens world as written here) but I think you could also come at it from a Grixis Shadow angle(no Swifty or Pyro)…and run a couple REveler instead of Tasigur so you don’t have to kill or interact too much with your own GRaveyard.

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By: Alexander Gnan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128899 Sat, 28 Oct 2017 11:17:27 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128899 I think the pitfall for this deck is the same as for UR Thing in The Ice Midrange. I ran a list for a long time with 4thing, 4swiftspear, 3bedlam, 2snaps. Yes, bedlam grinds out Midrange decks quite comfortably. But the deck failed in the face of Fatal Push and Grixis Death’s Shadow.

In my opinion, The only question worth asking in this archetype is wether Lingering Souls sufficiently addresses the main weakness of UR Aggro, which is cheap, efficient spotremoval. You basically swap power and impact (thing) for a go wide strategy (Pyro and souls). Souls is no doubt the best card in modern against spotremoval, but the downside (as you mention) is huge loss of aggression. It’s really hard for this deck to actually kill the opponent if delver doesn’t stick.

Would love to know your thoughts 🙂

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128898 Sat, 28 Oct 2017 02:37:50 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128898 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Was forced to say the deck name aloud tonight at FNM, was brutal!

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/10/uncharted-waters-gwixis-delver-modern/#comment-2128897 Fri, 27 Oct 2017 20:55:30 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15846#comment-2128897 I didnt think there would ever be a dumber attempted deck name than “monkey grow” but here we are.

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